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Topic: Ferries

dreieck
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Posted at: 2019-08-30, 10:30

Nordfriese wrote:

A branch is online face-smile.png

Where? (Or, since time has passed, maybe somewhere else the up-to-date ferry sources? I build by myself anyway. So patches to the main branch are the best ;))

Edited: 2019-08-30, 10:32

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-08-30, 11:36

You can get the branch info as well as information on the current state from the merge request: https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/ferry/+merge/351880


Busy indexing nil values

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stonerl
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 14:43

Since the ferries-branch is close to getting merged and therefore soon available for testing in the development build I'd like to add some remarks. I think there is still room for improvement.

1. Currently, the Ferry Yards need to be placed close to waters for it to produce ferries. As far as I remember from The Settlers, ferries could be build anywhere and then stored in the warehouse. When needed they were transported to the waterway and when the waterway was destroyed sunk or were transported back to a warehouse. The current implementation has the disadvantage that one has to build a ferry yard for every possible water area, which makes them extremely costly.

2. Ferries need to be handled as wares. It should be possible to set a limit in the economy settings. In its current implementation one has to monitor the Ferry Yard otherwise the waters are crowded with ferries that have nowhere to go.

3. Ferries cannot be destroyed. See 2

4. The Ferry Yards should have their distinct graphics. The current Ship Yard graphics are fine and could serve as a basis, but need to be adapted to make it easier to differentiate both building types.

5. The same goes for the ferries them self. They shouldn't be small ships, rather rafts.

An example for the problem in 2 & 3 can be seen in the attached screenshot.

Edited: 2019-12-04, 14:46

Attachment: shot0001.png (1.4 MB)

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 16:17

stonerl wrote:

Since the ferries-branch is close to getting merged and therefore soon available for testing in the development build I'd like to add some remarks. I think there is still room for improvement.

I have tested them as well and the mechanics work well except the issues provided below.

  1. Currently, the Ferry Yards need to be placed close to waters for it to produce ferries. As far as I remember from The Settlers, ferries could be build anywhere and then stored in the warehouse. When needed they were transported to the waterway and when the waterway was destroyed sunk or were transported back to a warehouse. The current implementation has the disadvantage that one has to build a ferry yard for every possible water area, which makes them extremely costly.

+1 if feasible however I'd deem this not a showstopper for the current implementation.

  1. Ferries need to be handled as wares. It should be possible to set a limit in the economy settings. In its current implementation one has to monitor the Ferry Yard otherwise the waters are crowded with ferries that have nowhere to go.

I believe handling them as wares would allow for #1 to be implemented. Have the ferry as a ware and rename the current ferry to ferryman which is created in a warehouse with ferry and carries a ferry to the waterway where he is turned into rowing ferry man.
However for the moment being we could try to simply define a target quantity for them as this is possible for workers as well (like for the second carrier).

  1. Ferries cannot be destroyed. See 2

+1 if implemented as ware it would lead to have the ferryman take his boat and walk back to the nearest warhouse if the waterway is destroyed. but not a showstopper from my side for this merge.

  1. The Ferry Yards should have their distinct graphics. The current Ship Yard graphics are fine and could serve as a basis, but need to be adapted to make it easier to differentiate both building types.

+1 but no prerequisite for the branch currently.

  1. The same goes for the ferries them self. They shouldn't be small ships, rather rafts.

I'd prefer rowboats based on current ship designs. just remove the mast and sails, shrink and add a worker inside. Ideally with rowing animation but not necessary for the current branch. Directional animations should be a prerequisite for merging though.

An example for the problem in 2 & 3 can be seen in the attached screenshot.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 17:41
  1. Currently, the Ferry Yards need to be placed close to waters for it to produce ferries. As far as I remember from The Settlers, ferries could be build anywhere and then stored in the warehouse. When needed they were transported to the waterway and when the waterway was destroyed sunk or were transported back to a warehouse. The current implementation has the disadvantage that one has to build a ferry yard for every possible water area, which makes them extremely costly.

This could also be fixed by making the ferryyard a small building. It only stores a few logs, and the ferry is assembled on the shore (perhaps with a long working anim of building it then)

  1. Ferries need to be handled as wares. It should be possible to set a limit in the economy settings. In its current implementation one has to monitor the Ferry Yard otherwise the waters are crowded with ferries that have nowhere to go.

Same as for shipyards, I don´t see the need to change that

  1. Ferries cannot be destroyed. See 2

How about ferries auto-sinking after half an hour of unemployment? (they´re cheap, so it doesn´t matter much)

  1. The Ferry Yards should have their distinct graphics. The current Ship Yard graphics are fine and could serve as a basis, but need to be adapted to make it easier to differentiate both building types.

  2. The same goes for the ferries them self. They shouldn't be small ships, rather rafts.

The current ones are only placeholders of course. As soon as the branch is merged, I´ll make a follow-up branch with a new building for the frisian ferryyard and a rowboat for the frisian ferry. (For the other tribes, I´ll make ferry placeholders from their ships and some modifications to the shipyard-like placeholders).


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stonerl
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 19:19

I did some brainstorming and do have some ideas I'd like to share.

Ferry Yard

  1. A Ferry Yard needs either a mid-size or max-size building spot.
  2. It has 2 Workers: A Shipwright and a(n) ox/horse/donkey.
  3. They can store up to 3 ferries in the building.
  4. When 3 Ferries are produced and stocked production stops.

Ferry

  1. When a waterway gets build, the ox/horse/donkey transports the ferry from the yard to the waterway and then returns.
  2. When a waterway gets destroyed, the ferry stays a couple of minutes on the water.
  3. When a new waterway gets constructed it sails to this new water way.
  4. If a ferry isn't positioned on a waterway for more than, say 7 minutes it rots away.

What do you think about this mechanism?


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gnarfk
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 20:40

some ideas :

Should there be a limit for the length of a waterway ? or the maximal distance to the beach ?

Should we think about 2 types of water terrain types , one on which only real ships can float, and other one on which ships and ferries can ?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 21:46

gnarfk wrote:

some ideas :

Should there be a limit for the length of a waterway ? or the maximal distance to the beach ?

was discussed in this thread. is defined by a vlaue to be set by the map designer. Nordfriese made values for our standard maps.

Should we think about 2 types of water terrain types , one on which only real ships can float, and other one on which ships and ferries can ?

why should we this would cost a lot of work with nearly no advantage.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-12-04, 21:50

stonerl wrote:

I did some brainstorming and do have some ideas I'd like to share.

Ferry Yard

  1. A Ferry Yard needs either a mid-size or max-size building spot.
  2. It has 2 Workers: A Shipwright and a(n) ox/horse/donkey.
  3. They can store up to 3 ferries in the building.
  4. When 3 Ferries are produced and stocked production stops.

Ferry

  1. When a waterway gets build, the ox/horse/donkey transports the ferry from the yard to the waterway and then returns.
  2. When a waterway gets destroyed, the ferry stays a couple of minutes on the water.
  3. When a new waterway gets constructed it sails to this new water way.
  4. If a ferry isn't positioned on a waterway for more than, say 7 minutes it rots away.

What do you think about this mechanism?

I believe this to be too complicated. especially the stocking part of the yard. currently we have no other building which stores its wares.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-12-05, 13:27

Yes, this would be way too complicated. -1.

Also I see a problem with the suggestion that a carrier grabs a ferry-ware and walks with it to the new waterway and turns into a ferry there: If the waterway connects two separate worker economies, both economies will independently send a worker with a ferry, which could not be easily fixed as unconnected economies do not communicate.

Also, if we make the concept much more complex than it is now, ferries will become annoying to handle. They´re intended to be a lightweight complement to ships, not something you need to pay much attention though. On most maps there are only one or two oceans so you don´t need to build masses of ferryyards either.


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