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Topic: new tribe: amazons

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2020-01-19, 22:38

ok treetop sentry is fixed. Thanks to Nordfrees for this.
I removed the eco skipping from the rare tree woodcutters so they are now cutting all rare trees all the time. only the planters react on the neededness of trees.
let's see how this works out.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2020-01-20, 01:34

hessenfarmer wrote:

ok treetop sentry is fixed. Thanks to Nordfrees for this.
I removed the eco skipping from the rare tree woodcutters so they are now cutting all rare trees all the time. only the planters react on the neededness of trees.
let's see how this works out.

in theory it should work, because when the demand rise again, there will be a stock to draw upon while new trees are planted. it works if the stock is not too low. i would therefore suggest to raise the target stock to 20 units for each rare wood.

I'm also thinking, while a working economy is always using some trees, there is the risk that if most of them are not planted, rare tree woodcutters will have a low productivity. which is not a problem by itself, but it may become annoying when you get all the "out of trees" messages. it's worse for the AI, who may start to dismantle them. So, I suggest having a very low treshold of productivity for rare trees woodcutter before they send the "out of trees" message. say, 10%. enough that it will catch a woodcutter too far from the planters, but it should not trigger randomly if the economy slows. this is required by the unique situation that this woodcutter does not have a "economy does not need X" loop to skip work (and should not have one, as demonstrated by the earlier problems), but the availability of its target trees is controlled by another building.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-01-20, 09:19

king_of_nowhere wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

ok treetop sentry is fixed. Thanks to Nordfrees for this.
I removed the eco skipping from the rare tree woodcutters so they are now cutting all rare trees all the time. only the planters react on the neededness of trees.
let's see how this works out.

in theory it should work, because when the demand rise again, there will be a stock to draw upon while new trees are planted. it works if the stock is not too low. i would therefore suggest to raise the target stock to 20 units for each rare wood.

I'm also thinking, while a working economy is always using some trees, there is the risk that if most of them are not planted, rare tree woodcutters will have a low productivity. which is not a problem by itself, but it may become annoying when you get all the "out of trees" messages. it's worse for the AI, who may start to dismantle them. So, I suggest having a very low treshold of productivity for rare trees woodcutter before they send the "out of trees" message. say, 10%. enough that it will catch a woodcutter too far from the planters, but it should not trigger randomly if the economy slows. this is required by the unique situation that this woodcutter does not have a "economy does not need X" loop to skip work (and should not have one, as demonstrated by the earlier problems), but the availability of its target trees is controlled by another building.

Sounds reasonable, so I will incorporate this tonight.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2020-02-02, 15:40

so, both me and ws think that amazons should have an early game buff, because it's hard to train soldiers from the start.

one major problem is that they can make a training building immediately, but they cannot start training as they lack chocolate for it. to produce chocolate you require both chocolate brewery and water gatherer, both buildings use a lot of rubber. and you don't have enough rubber to start them all. so, while other tribes can start with a training building and start training soldiers immediately even if they lack support structures, as they have enough bread and meat to cover it until the rest of the economy kicks in, the amazons cannot.

ropes are also another problem. even starting 2 ropeweavers, you run out of ropes before they are completed. ropes are amazon equivalent of planks/hardwood, in that they are the limiting building material in early game. other tribes all start with 30-40 planks, but amazons only have 20 ropes. even then, rope weavers are awfully slow. i checked the data, and it takes 72 seconds for one to make a rope, against 36.5 seconds for amazons and empire and 67 for barbarians. amazons use ropes somewhat less than atlanteans and empire use planks, but definitely more than barbarians use hardwood - barbarians need no hardwood at all for small buildings, while amazons need ropes for them too.

finally, production of rare woods is still slow to start.

so, i propose the following cchanges

  • adding 6 chocolate to the starting wares.

  • adding 10 ropes to the starting wares (from 20 to 30)

  • speeding up the rope weaver so that a work cycle takes 55 seconds

  • removing the rope cost from the ropeweaver (this is a noob help to avoid deadlocking the economy if you run out of ropes early, not related to balance)

  • adding a third junglemaster and master woodcutter to the starting wares

  • adding 3 of each kind of rare woods to the starting wares.


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
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Posted at: 2020-02-02, 16:42

I think we must recognize, that Amazons dont need to find Iron - this must be added else I see everyone playing Amazons soon - escpecially since map making these days is looking to make iron really rarely and gold high rarely, what is very good thing


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-02-02, 16:44

Also i playtested amazons in in the middle of the game they are indescribably strengh - the phase where all other tribes struggle to keep up foor production / building farms / Bauernhöfe


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-02-18, 10:27

just to inform everyone. I pushed a change yesterday that changed the wares order in the amazons branch (this means the order they are loaded by the game). this had to be done to keep savegame compatibility with current master. I just learned about this trap yesterday. This means unfortunately that any savegame made with previous version of the amazos branch are incompatible with newest one.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-02-19, 19:50

Hi I am sorry to admit that I forgot to add some files to the repo in my last push. Fix is already pushed however if needed you could extract the attached files in the zipped folder to data/tribes/wares/charcoal to solve the crash occuring from this


Attachment: charcoal.zip (2.7 KB)

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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-02-19, 23:07

Ideen:

  • Buttons sind zu klein -> lästiges Micromanagement bei 1) Angriffsauswahl und 2) immer den Woodcatter durch einen Master Woodcutter finden, das dauert lange und wenn der woodcutter nicht im Hause ist ist der klick erfolglos und man muss weitere Woodcutter durchklicken
  • Wäre eine weitere Ausbaustufe sinnvoll? Braucht man überhaupt 2? 2 bei Woodcutter ist insofern doof, als dass kein Ausbaufeeling zustande kommt aber doch genug dass man lästig dauernd seine 7 Woodcutter durchklicken muss bis man nen woodcutter findet der zum andern Gebäude geht. Bei kurzen Spielen ist okay okay, bei langen nicht. Sehr schön waren z.B. die Minen der Barbaren sowie deren Wirtshäuser die man dreimal verbessert, das macht Spaß zudem überlegt man sich manchjmal ob man gleich auf Stufe 3 geht. Wäre das nicht mit 5 Stufen schön?

Amazonen sind n schönes Volk, ne super Idee besonders der zweite Punkt müssen wir irgendwie hinkriegen auch wenn ich weiß dass wir in der Entwicklung fast schon zu weit sind um das noch irgendwie langzeitpraktikabel hinzukriegen


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-02-19, 23:08

Playtesting:

Buttons are too small -> annoying micromanagement with 1) attack selection and 2) always find the woodcatter by a master woodcutter, this takes a long time and if the woodcutter is not in the house the click is unsuccessful and you have to click through more woodcutter Would a further expansion stage make sense? Do you even need 2? 2 at Woodcutter is stupid insofar as there is no feeling of expansion but enough that you have to constantly click through your 7 Woodcutter until you find a woodcutter that goes to the other building. It's okay for short games, but not for long ones. For example, very beautiful the mines of the barbarians and their taverns, which you can improve three times, that is fun and you sometimes think about going to level 3. Wouldn't that be nice with 5 levels? Amazons are a beautiful people, a great idea, especially the second point, we have to get there somehow, even if I know that we are almost too far in development to be able to do this in any way


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