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Topic: new tribe: amazons

hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-01-17, 14:57

As soon as Nordfriese could find some time we might get further with the tribe.
Especially the treetop sentry is currently broken and I have no glue why and which change in trunk broke it. However the current version in my fork is pretty much up to date with trunk.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-01-17, 21:37

I'm really sorry that I am so slow with the graphics… face-sad.png

  • Recently I was on holiday and the mouse fell into pieces on the first day. (Blender is nearly impossible to use without one). And the only electronics shop there demands moon prices;

  • As soon as I was at home, my cat tried out his claws on the keyboard and some keys are now missing,

  • And as if that weren´t enough yet, my dev machine's WLAN adapter is unstable so I can often pull and push changes only once or twice a week.

I'll have a look at the treetop sentry as soon as I can pull the branch, and I'll continue with Blender (hopefully) soon…


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2020-01-17, 22:57

hessenfarmer wrote:

would be good to have some playtesting feedback from you on the other hand.

i already gave plenty of testing fedback some months ago. then i passed the job to worldsavior, as our most skilled player he should understand balance better. were there more recent developments to check?

EDIT:

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

i think something got lost in translation. what do you mean by nested commodities?

I believe he wanted to say that there should be more complex production programs needing more different wares and dependencies, like it kind of is with the frisians. But in my eyes that was not the background of the idea of the amazons and by the way I strongly believe their economy isn't less complex then at least the legacy tribes econmy at all.

those kind of linked commodities are unique to frisians, and i don't see that they would need to be everywhere. none of the other tribes have them.

plus, i think more complexity would actually hurt the game. one thing is having something rich and complex, and another thing is requiring a master degree to learn the game

Edited: 2020-01-17, 23:03

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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-01-18, 09:50

king_of_nowhere wrote:

those kind of linked commodities are unique to frisians, and i don't see that they would need to be everywhere. none of the other tribes have them.

Again, it is not about building another Frisian Tribe - it is about the mechanics in the game. And again, we do need more mechanics if you want to have long term fun. Since world told me you stopped playing widelands it is even more necessary to have next to the Tournament a nice Tribe to keep you in the game face-wink.png xD

Edited: 2020-01-18, 09:51

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-01-18, 12:39

@hessenfarmer I can't use git at the moment, but here are the code changes you need to push to the amazons branch to fix the treetop sentry:

Edited: 2020-01-18, 12:40

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-01-18, 14:49

Nordfriese wrote:

@hessenfarmer I can't use git at the moment, but here are the code changes you need to push to the amazons branch to fix the treetop sentry:

many thanks. I will do so after having set up my new dev machine.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2020-01-19, 02:50

the-x wrote:

And again, we do need more mechanics if you want to have long term fun. Since world told me you stopped playing widelands it is even more necessary to have next to the Tournament a nice Tribe to keep you in the game face-wink.png xD

the reasons i stopped playing actively are a bit more complex, though generally can be summed up as "got nothing to do".

in single player i long since exhausted everything i could think of doing. made every challenge, then designed my own challenges with the editor, then i had nothing to do. last time i played was with the new campaing missions. will try some challenges with amazons when they are finalized.

as for multiplayer, the problem there is that of perception. i can't relax when i do multiplayer. i can't just play a casual game. i need to have studied the map before. those who have seen me play may remember that I try to place every road, every building just so. not knowing how they are to be placed strongly affects me. there are times when i chop all the trees and only then start building stuff, after i can see all the building places.

it doesn't help that the most likely opponents would be either worldsavior, against whom I MUST prepare if i want to have something that can be called a "game" - instead of "being used to mop the floor" - and that almost always manages to beat me anyway. or the-x, against whom i have less need of preparation, but that has a way of playing that i really don't enjoy. plus, losing to a rush makes me feel bad (in chess if you lose early it means you did something very stupid, and chess shaped a lot of my gaming attitude), so again i cannot just relax and play.

and virtually anyone else is weaker than me to the point that i'd feel a bully to ask them to play. that may have been changed in the last year, who knows. last time mars came pretty close to defeating me.

by now, you're probably thinking i should see a psychologist face-shock.png but regardless, for some weird reason when i play this game i cannot just sit down and relax and take what happens. which i can do very easily at chess, despite the fact that in chess there is and official federation with an official ranking, sometimes money to be won, and here there is not. well, if i knew a pshycologist, i'd certainly be curious to ask him what he makes of that. but the fact remain that playing this game in multiplayer is a stressful to me.

the final nail on the coffin is that when i have the time to play some long game in multiplayer, i have civilization4, which is a similar concept (build up an economy and use it to defeat the enemy with your bigger-more advanced army), but that has enough of a community that i can almost always find some team game, and that does not stress me (except a couple of players that sometimes flame, but that's another matter).

so, for all this reasons i don't play widelands unless i have an actual tournament.

do notice that a new tribe with complex economy does not keep me in the game. i tried the frisians, but i never wanted to use them outside of the campaigns. everyone has a personal line where increased complexity stops being entertaining and starts becoming annoying, and frisians cross mine.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-01-19, 10:17

Well I believe in one part KoN is absolutely right. Fun is definitly a very subjective matter and depends on various things including personality and character. So I believe we can't have a common understanding of fun, As could be seen in the discussions about game speed and so on. Personally I always played Singleplayer as I enjoyed playing with a underlying net named autosave. So that is why I joined making scenarios, to increase fun for singleplayer. (if you like them or not is again a matter of taste) and that is why I try to improve the AI to increase difficulty a bit. Multiplayer was a new experience to me this summer and it is stressing more as you can't simply reload and due to the small maps everything is happen pretty fast.
However what I wanted to say is that the amazons have a clearly defined character as had the frisians and I always voted against changes that change th character of the tribe. Otherwise we would have ended with 4 or 5 identical tribes with just different graphics. So to keep it simple I think we can and we should discuss every change proposal that fits into the character of the tribe. But we shouldn't try to incorporate any main feature of an other tribe just to make it feel more like this tribe.
So if anybody has a proposal that fits the well discussed concept of the amazons and helps to cure for example some economic shortfalls (like stone and water availability on some maps) I'll be happy to take them into consideration.
@ KoN as you are the mastermind behind amazons I really would love to have your consensus on the changes to be made


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2020-01-19, 13:46

hessenfarmer wrote:

However what I wanted to say is that the amazons have a clearly defined character as had the frisians and I always voted against changes that change th character of the tribe. Otherwise we would have ended with 4 or 5 identical tribes with just different graphics.

yes, i'm pretty pleased on how it came out

@ KoN as you are the mastermind behind amazons I really would love to have your consensus on the changes to be made

ok. but as far as i followed, all the changes are slight tweaks about balance. increasing a starting ware, speeding up or slowing down the working cycle of a building, those things do not change the character of a tribe. and the few suggestions that would change that were rejected from an early stage, i got the impression.

so, what would be exactly that you wanted my opinion on?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-01-19, 20:11

king_of_nowhere wrote:

so, what would be exactly that you wanted my opinion on?

nothing particualr at the moment. that was more general spoken to keep/ensure your contribution to this project.


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