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Topic: new tribe: amazons

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2019-12-22, 22:55

I started to make changes again. you can find them on github


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2019-12-23, 00:15

WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Some new test playing showed me that Amazons can train a supersoldier fast enough. But I'm not sure enough if they are strong enough on small maps, because they need then a lot of rare wood (military buildings, training), and they start only with one master cutter and 2 junglemasters. (btw it's weird that the junglemaster doesn't plant the rare trees in the jungle masters hut.)

If this would be the case the rare tree plantation would be useless. Rare tree need special treatment before being plant so we need a medium building for that and an expereinced planter.

Sorry for not exactly saying that this is just about the names, not about the game mechanic.

Any suggestions?

And in the test match I reached the point where Eco didn't need any more rare trees, so it was a pity for some wasted resources face-wink.png

good to hear this is possible. However in this case I would recommend setting new economy demand values. should be easy with +10 button.

That's a little bit like there would be an economy setting for meat and you would suggest me to simply increase the eco setting if when the hunter-gatherer stops working face-wink.png

ok noted but not on the priority list. sorry

New test playing showed me a dissatisfying situation: I didn't need 1 kind of rare wood, but the other 2. What happens? The unneeded trees are not cutted and take all the space for the plantation away, almost nothing works anymore. My suggestion would solve this problem.

ok this is a point. went up on the list then face-wink.png

Good face-smile.png

while implementing changes I have thought again. The situation you encountered (2 rare woods needed and 1 not with the not needed trees blocking the area shouldn't happen as rare trees are only planted if the ware is needed. Furthermore your proposed solution won't help either as it would only planting if the other 2 woods are not needed as well. So please retest and send me a savegame / replay perhaps.

More bugs:

  • If you press F1 and want to check out wooden spear, the help is a little bit broken?

fixed was a missing comma. sometimes lua is a bit nasty. face-wink.png

  • Wood has an eco setting, too. For what?

to prevent normal woodcutters cutting rare trees in their vicinity accidentally

Okay... Not sure if that will work. Usually you need a lot of wood, so this will not stop the woodcutters. And you want to keep your woodcutters working all the time because of the high wood demand... Another point: In case that woodcutters could not cut those trees anymore, the setting could be removed...

well it is hard to make them cuttable by other tribes woodcutters while not being cuttable by our normal woodcutters. so dor the moment being I'd rather stick with the ecosetting.

  • Gardening centers cannot work on winter snow? @king_of_nowhere is this intended?

I've investigated this again and see that they actually can work, but I would have to investigate more to see why they didn't work in that one case.

Any results yet? BTW I made now a version of rare tree for each biome.


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JanO
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Joined: 2015-08-02, 11:56
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Posted at: 2019-12-23, 11:35

hessenfarmer wrote:

well it is hard to make them cuttable by other tribes woodcutters while not being cuttable by our normal woodcutters. so dor the moment being I'd rather stick with the ecosetting.

We could archive this by a third tag for trees: Now there is something like 'tree' and 'rare tree', right? With 'rare tree', 'tree' and 'amazonian tree', it would be possible. Amazons plant 'amazonian tree' and 'rare tree' and amazonian woodcutters can cut 'tree' and 'amazonian tree', rare woodcutters cut only rare trees (or all three, if wanted). Other tribes only plant normal 'tree' and cut all three.

Stupid idea: Maybe babarians could get hardened logs if their woodcutter cuts rare trees?


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2019-12-23, 16:04

JanO wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

well it is hard to make them cuttable by other tribes woodcutters while not being cuttable by our normal woodcutters. so dor the moment being I'd rather stick with the ecosetting.

We could archive this by a third tag for trees: Now there is something like 'tree' and 'rare tree', right? With 'rare tree', 'tree' and 'amazonian tree', it would be possible. Amazons plant 'amazonian tree' and 'rare tree' and amazonian woodcutters can cut 'tree' and 'amazonian tree', rare woodcutters cut only rare trees (or all three, if wanted). Other tribes only plant normal 'tree' and cut all three.

Stupid idea: Maybe babarians could get hardened logs if their woodcutter cuts rare trees?

yes a third tag could do this so I need to add a normal tree tag to all already existing trees. the four other tribes will cut all as they have the tree tag. Amazon normal cutters will cut normal trees and rare cutters will cut rare trees. I'll give it a try this way as it should not be that much work.

As for the idea with barbarians this is to complicated to implement to be worth the pain as the benefit would be low. BTW: that would make only sense for ironwood trees and not for balsa and rubber.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2019-12-23, 16:49

ok
I implemented the tree tag now and removed the log ecosetting.
I renamed the junglemasters hut to junglepreservers hut as well.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1357
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Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-12-29, 17:56

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Some new test playing showed me that Amazons can train a supersoldier fast enough. But I'm not sure enough if they are strong enough on small maps, because they need then a lot of rare wood (military buildings, training), and they start only with one master cutter and 2 junglemasters. (btw it's weird that the junglemaster doesn't plant the rare trees in the jungle masters hut.)

If this would be the case the rare tree plantation would be useless. Rare tree need special treatment before being plant so we need a medium building for that and an expereinced planter.

Sorry for not exactly saying that this is just about the names, not about the game mechanic.

Any suggestions?

"Jungle hut"? Well, maybe your suggestion "Jungle preserver's hut" is better...

And in the test match I reached the point where Eco didn't need any more rare trees, so it was a pity for some wasted resources face-wink.png

good to hear this is possible. However in this case I would recommend setting new economy demand values. should be easy with +10 button.

That's a little bit like there would be an economy setting for meat and you would suggest me to simply increase the eco setting if when the hunter-gatherer stops working face-wink.png

ok noted but not on the priority list. sorry

New test playing showed me a dissatisfying situation: I didn't need 1 kind of rare wood, but the other 2. What happens? The unneeded trees are not cutted and take all the space for the plantation away, almost nothing works anymore. My suggestion would solve this problem.

ok this is a point. went up on the list then face-wink.png

Good face-smile.png

while implementing changes I have thought again. The situation you encountered (2 rare woods needed and 1 not with the not needed trees blocking the area shouldn't happen as rare trees are only planted if the ware is needed.

Reason might be that trees take their time to grow.

Furthermore your proposed solution won't help either as it would only planting if the other 2 woods are not needed as well.

But at least the rarecutters are going to chop the trees as soon as no more trees are needed.

By the way, I discovered that one can simplify

Skip unless (eco needs balsa OR (eco not needs balsa AND eco not needs rubber AND eco not needs ironwood ) )

to

Skip unless (eco needs balsa OR (eco not needs rubber AND eco not needs ironwood ) )

and so on.

So please retest and send me a savegame / replay perhaps.

I'll see what I can do...

More bugs:

  • If you press F1 and want to check out wooden spear, the help is a little bit broken?

fixed was a missing comma. sometimes lua is a bit nasty. face-wink.png

Okay

  • Wood has an eco setting, too. For what?

to prevent normal woodcutters cutting rare trees in their vicinity accidentally

Okay... Not sure if that will work. Usually you need a lot of wood, so this will not stop the woodcutters. And you want to keep your woodcutters working all the time because of the high wood demand... Another point: In case that woodcutters could not cut those trees anymore, the setting could be removed...

well it is hard to make them cuttable by other tribes woodcutters while not being cuttable by our normal woodcutters. so dor the moment being I'd rather stick with the ecosetting.

Still hard? The suggestion of JanO sounded good.

  • Gardening centers cannot work on winter snow? @king_of_nowhere is this intended?

I've investigated this again and see that they actually can work, but I would have to investigate more to see why they didn't work in that one case.
Any results yet?

No

BTW I made now a version of rare tree for each biome.

Sounds good

JanO wrote:

Stupid idea: Maybe babarians could get hardened logs if their woodcutter cuts rare trees?

Balsa and rubber aren't that hard, but ironwood should be hardened log, yes.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1357
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Location: GER
Posted at: 2020-01-02, 23:36

Happy new year everyone! (everyone except for spammers and trolls of course face-wink.png )

Now I checked the game again and see that there is not a gardening center bug, I seem to have overlooked that they work on snow because the result is just hardly visible.

Suggestion: Meat should be preferred everywhere over fish, because the fish is also needed in gardening centers. Reminder: To achieve this, one has to see the fish over the meat in the ware lists of the buildings. In the lua-files one would have to swap meat and fish.

Would it be possible that Liana Cutters go to a tree before a woodcutter does? That way, a liana cutter could chop the liana just before the tree gets chopped and it can work better.

And I would mention that the number of initial carpenters of amazons is very low. So one has to live with that shortage or build a tool maker very soon. Opinions about that?


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
Posts: 536
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Location: 0x55555d3a34c0
Posted at: 2020-01-08, 13:49

Would it be possible that Liana Cutters go to a tree before a woodcutter does? That way, a liana cutter could chop the liana just before the tree gets chopped and it can work better.

Unfortunately there´s no easy way of implementing this. When a worker starts going to another map object, that object is reserved for him (so as to prevent two woodcutters cutting the same tree or two hunters chasing the same animal). Exception rules would be very hard to code…


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-01-08, 14:44

WorldSavior wrote:

while implementing changes I have thought again. The situation you encountered (2 rare woods needed and 1 not with the not needed trees blocking the area shouldn't happen as rare trees are only planted if the ware is needed.

Reason might be that trees take their time to grow.

yeah but there might be some 5-7 trees and not all spots blocked. Howevver I'll give ti a try

Furthermore your proposed solution won't help either as it would only planting if the other 2 woods are not needed as well.

But at least the rarecutters are going to chop the trees as soon as no more trees are needed.

By the way, I discovered that one can simplify

Skip unless (eco needs balsa OR (eco not needs balsa AND eco not needs rubber AND eco not needs ironwood ) )

to

Skip unless (eco needs balsa OR (eco not needs rubber AND eco not needs ironwood ) )

so this sounds better let's see how the tooltip looks like. But this is only for the cutter the planters stay as they are. If it wouldn't screw the statistics we could control this ware totally by the planters and having the cutters chop all trees all the time, but this would produce a lot of failed cycles. Maybe we should consider this together with the redesign of the statistics, as I just found the old bug about this. I'll try to prepare a branch which uses the new AI crude percent (time based) and see what it does.

  • Wood has an eco setting, too. For what?

to prevent normal woodcutters cutting rare trees in their vicinity accidentally

Okay... Not sure if that will work. Usually you need a lot of wood, so this will not stop the woodcutters. And you want to keep your woodcutters working all the time because of the high wood demand... Another point: In case that woodcutters could not cut those trees anymore, the setting could be removed...

well it is hard to make them cuttable by other tribes woodcutters while not being cuttable by our normal woodcutters. so dor the moment being I'd rather stick with the ecosetting.

Still hard? The suggestion of JanO sounded good.

already implemented see my posts above.

JanO wrote:

Stupid idea: Maybe babarians could get hardened logs if their woodcutter cuts rare trees?

Balsa and rubber aren't that hard, but ironwood should be hardened log, yes.

see above this is not trivial to implement, but maybe you have an idea how to do this in lua.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 916
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One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-01-08, 14:48

WorldSavior wrote:

Happy new year everyone! (everyone except for spammers and trolls of course face-wink.png )

same to you.

And I would mention that the number of initial carpenters of amazons is very low. So one has to live with that shortage or build a tool maker very soon. Opinions about that?

What do you mean with carpenters? if it is the stonecarver it is something like a combined tool and weaponsmith. However I believe adding a second or third stonecarver and or hammer and chisel to starting conditions might be a good idea. In any case starting conditions aren't finished yet. so suggestions for good values are highly appreciated.


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