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Topic: Bugs between build20 and build21

WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-05-03, 11:02

Yes.

But I have investigated the bug and cannot confirm it at all, so it probably doesn't exist.

blind3rdeye wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong; but as I understand it, the cool-down for metal working is on the building itself, not the worker; but the experience is on the worker, not the building. So you can increase the rate at which your worker gains experience by having two metal-workshops next to each other, and kick the worker out whenever they finish a cycle. (So that instead of waiting for the cooldown, they just walk to the building next door and start working again immediately.)

No, the last what smiths do is producing, then they gain XP. They are not like woodcutters.

I've been playing some 'poor hamlet' / 'struggling outpost' starts recently, and I've used this trick to speed up wood-cutting.

Thanks for unveiling this bug. Must be fixed for many buildings imho

So, I checked what barbarian woodcutters do in bzr9220. It doesn't matter if the woodcutter works regularly or if I kick him directly after his return to the building (in that case he goes to the flag and back into the building) - in both cases the working is equally fast.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-05-29, 23:39

Hint: It also doesn't matter if the worker gets quickly replaced by another one - this action doesn't improve the working speed of the building.

WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Regarding the training system which one do you mean and what are the exact critics in it. I was not sure about this but I couldn't express why.

I might collect the points soon and list them in the bug thread

I haven't collected all disadvantages know but big disadvantages are:

  • if you kick a half trained soldier out a trainingssite, he might walk immediatly walk in again instead of being replaced
  • increasing capacity in the building will not achieve that soldiers walk there immediately, what they should.
  • edit: After being kicked out, the soldiers might return to the trainingssite later. Very annoying if you want to train soldiers only partly.
Edited: 2020-05-29, 23:48

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-05-30, 10:13

Which version exactly?

increasing capacity in the building will not achieve that soldiers walk there immediately, what they should.

They do so after a brief delay which is necessary to look for the most suited soldier to send

edit: After being kicked out, the soldiers might return to the trainingssite later. Very annoying if you want to train soldiers only partly.

When exactly is partial training better than full training? We have an open bug for b22 about giving the player more control, but for now the algorithm tries to find the most suited soldier so you can get heroes faster.


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teppo
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Posted at: 2020-05-30, 11:09

WorldSavior wrote:

  • increasing capacity in the building will not achieve that soldiers walk there immediately, what they should.

Tell more. If there are free soldiers in the economy, this should happen. The trainingsite soldier selection was changed just before the build-21 freeze. Generally, the site became pickier which shows especially if there is a shortage of unoccupied soldiers .

  • edit: After being kicked out, the soldiers might return to the trainingssite later. Very annoying if you want to train soldiers only partly.

If you do not want some training step to happen: Reduce the wares so that that training step cannot happen (as in golden shield capacity to zero). The soldiers will start leaving when when that step repeatedly fails, and do not come back (unless nobody shows up, after which the restriction lifts). Manually removing soldiers do not have that effect.

Currently, the soldiers do not have names (or serial numbers) so that it would be impossible to prevent that particular instance from re-appearing. Also the current mechanism to call for soldiers cannot say that this-and-that guy are not welcome, selection can only happen by training level.

Nordfriese wrote:

When exactly is partial training better than full training? We have an open bug for b22 about giving the player more control, but for now the algorithm tries to find the most suited soldier so you can get heroes faster.

If only everybody agreed on how it should work, the rest would be easy.


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JanO
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Posted at: 2020-05-30, 21:40

I guess that WorldSaviour does know that workaround for his problem with partial training. I have observed that behaviour, too. It does not only apply to trainingsites but to ordinary military buildings as well. I would describe it as following: If the algorithm is unable to find a better match for the kicked soldier it just sends him back immediatly. This is reasonable if there actually is no better match (like you kick out 1 of 8 soldiers from evade-training while those 8 are the only ones that are not fully trained in evade). Is it possible that the picking-algorithm has no awareness about the wares inside the trainingsites? I mean, if the site sends requests for soldiers with attack lvl2 but weapons for attack lvl3 are (set to) zero... this will not be very efficient. On top of that, sometimes the algorithm seems to get stuck, like in this triangular ware-routing bug that was investigated some time ago. I figured out the behaviour once, but I forgot again and sadly at the moment I'm not able to put it into words.

For the other one, that soldiers should be send to military sites immediately if the number is increased: I don't know if this is what WorldSaviour addresses to, but as long as there are soldiers on their way toward the site that are send by the automatic exchange (prefer rookies or prefer heroes), the manually triggered requests are put into queue. One can kick out soldiers whenever one likes to, but requests are often delayed.


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teppo
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Posted at: 2020-05-30, 23:02

JanO wrote:

I mean, if the site sends requests for soldiers with attack lvl2 but weapons for attack lvl3 are (set to) zero... this will not be very efficient.

No, it isn't. Should it?

On top of that, sometimes the algorithm seems to get stuck, like in this triangular ware-routing bug that was investigated some time ago. I figured out the behaviour once, but I forgot again and sadly at the moment I'm not able to put it into words.

If you find some words later, I read with great interest.


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JanO
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Posted at: 2020-05-31, 08:54

teppo wrote:

JanO wrote:

I mean, if the site sends requests for soldiers with attack lvl2 but weapons for attack lvl3 are (set to) zero... this will not be very efficient.

No, it isn't. Should it?

Good question. Would probably solve this one problem but I guess it would bring one or two new ones.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-05-31, 19:05

JanO wrote:

I guess that WorldSaviour does know that workaround for his problem with partial training.

I didn't, but I don't like that workaround anyway, I've already found a better one face-wink.png

For the other one, that soldiers should be send to military sites immediately if the number is increased: I don't know if this is what WorldSaviour addresses to, but as long as there are soldiers on their way toward the site that are send by the automatic exchange (prefer rookies or prefer heroes), the manually triggered requests are put into queue. One can kick out soldiers whenever one likes to, but requests are often delayed.

I was talking about trainingssites, not militarysites. Have milsites a new algorithm, too?

teppo wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

  • increasing capacity in the building will not achieve that soldiers walk there immediately, what they should.

Tell more. If there are free soldiers in the economy, this should happen.

It takes a lot of time until soldiers finally walk in. Didn't measure it but the time should be very short.

  • edit: After being kicked out, the soldiers might return to the trainingssite later. Very annoying if you want to train soldiers only partly.

If you do not want some training step to happen: Reduce the wares so that that training step cannot happen (as in golden shield capacity to zero). The soldiers will start leaving when when that step repeatedly fails, and do not come back (unless nobody shows up, after which the restriction lifts). Manually removing soldiers do not have that effect.

But then I have to wait a lot of time until the soldiers go away. Thanks for the tip nevertheless.

Currently, the soldiers do not have names (or serial numbers) so that it would be impossible to prevent that particular instance from re-appearing. Also the current mechanism to call for soldiers cannot say that this-and-that guy are not welcome, selection can only happen by training level.

Before the new algorithm, soldiers were prevented from re-appearing in most situations. Simply because the free slots have been filled immediately with new requests, which was faster than the soldier who walked to the flag.

Nordfriese wrote:

When exactly is partial training better than full training?

For example on small maps where you don't have time for full training. Or if now gold is available. Or simply because you like to ; )

If only everybody agreed on how it should work, the rest would be easy.

What about reducing the "waiting time before the free slots get filled" to 1 second?

Nordfriese wrote:

Which version exactly?

bzr 9296 (may 6th) but also some 7000ish master/ama. Hast it been changed several times?

increasing capacity in the building will not achieve that soldiers walk there immediately, what they should.

They do so after a brief delay which is necessary to look for the most suited soldier to send

Does it really need to be that long instead of 1s?


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-05-31, 19:27

Another bug: Quarries take far too long now until reporting "no rocks". Couldn't they drop productivity much faster again?

If they don't find rocks there are only two possibilites at all:

  1. No rocks in range

  2. All rocks occupied by other quarries in exactly that moment.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-05-31, 19:28

bzr 9296 (may 6th) but also some 7000ish master/ama. Hast it been changed several times?

There was a major bugfix in bzr9306


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