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Topic: The great Stormflood add tips for final stormflood

TuStudent
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Joined: 2015-05-02, 23:30
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-11-03, 11:33

I played: "Von Wasser zu Eis"(german for "From Water to Ice") -> "Die Große Sturmflut" (german for " The great Stormflood").

I found the Stormflood quite challenging (if would have not replayed the last part):

Honestly, I had to play the last part three times.

  • The first time I removed all wares in all buildings (see bug https://github.com/widelands/widelands/issues/1431 ) and dismanted them (much stupid and stressy work), that leaded that all my "site worker" died in the flood. I could not build anything any more, because all hammers were flooded. Game suggestions 1 and 3
  • The second time I did not have any tools like "needles", therefore the "Werft" (german for "shipyard") and the "Weberei" (german for "weaving mill") did not have any worker, and I had a "forest-wall", only with only two ways through the forest see Game suggestions 2 and 3

Game suggestions:

  1. site workers should not die in a flood, they should survive as you would destroy the building
  2. You should have a worker in the headquater from the beginning of the play for "Werft"("shipyard") and "Weberei"("weaving mill")
  3. add a information which wares/workers you need for finishing this tutorial (list materials/tools/wares/workes for "shipyard", "weaving mill", "habor", "expedition", "ship")

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Tribal-Chief
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Joined: 2018-12-09, 17:16
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-11-03, 14:31

It is completly logical that if a buiding floods so does its flaag and road, it is no longer part of the economy, and thw worker cannot walk on water so he dies.

If you play sensibly you do not need needles fot the weaving mill. Once you have the target super soldiers dismantle the sewing room and tailors, send the worker to the most East warehouse. In fact you should be sending all workers and tools, as well as building materials as far East as you can as soon as you can. The 'secrets' of this scnario are transport and warehouses.

I realise that not finishing it due to forgetting something simple can be frustrating, especially as it is a god awful boring scenario, the thought of playing it again is not a happy thought. The next scenrio for Frisians is even worse though.

For your suggestions my personal view is -

  1. normal behaviour, nothing to change.
  2. not required to have any advanced workers at the start, nor many other ones either, you have enough resorces to make more than you need.
  3. while it would be nice to know what you need in advance it does rather spoil the story to know the ending, but having played it once you know anyway, so I would err on the side of keeping it secret.
Edited: 2019-11-03, 14:31

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-11-03, 15:37

Tribal-Chief wrote:

It is completly logical that if a buiding floods so does its flaag and road, it is no longer part of the economy, and thw worker cannot walk on water so he dies.

If you play sensibly you do not need needles fot the weaving mill. Once you have the target super soldiers dismantle the sewing room and tailors, send the worker to the most East warehouse. In fact you should be sending all workers and tools, as well as building materials as far East as you can as soon as you can. The 'secrets' of this scnario are transport and warehouses.

yes, but that only happens if you already know you'll be flooded and can move wares in advance. if you lack this foreknowledge, it's unlikely that you will be able to salvage the game, as all your economy will be in the west part of the island, which will be flooded in a few minutes. and the autosave is made when the flood already started and it's too late to do anything. I had to reload a previous save myself.

by the way, i liked the second frisian scenario, though it's a bit long


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TuStudent
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Joined: 2015-05-02, 23:30
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-11-03, 16:06

Tribal-Chief wrote:

It is completly logical that if a buiding floods so does its flaag and road, it is no longer part of the economy, and thw worker cannot walk on water so he dies.

No the flag ist still alive when the builing floodes/crashes.

Tribal-Chief wrote:

If you play sensibly you do not need needles fot the weaving mill. Once you have the target super soldiers dismantle the sewing room and tailors, send the worker to the most East warehouse. In fact you should be sending all workers and tools, as well as building materials as far East as you can as soon as you can. The 'secrets' of this scnario are transport and warehouses.

Ok, thats right, but the transport does not work throug a forest wall building material will block all your pathes and lumberjacks are too slow to make more pathways.

Tribal-Chief wrote:

  1. while it would be nice to know what you need in advance it does rather spoil the story to know the ending, but having played it once you know anyway, so I would err on the side of keeping it secret.

Sorry, but you missunderstood me. As soon as you know which buildings you have too build you can add a list of materials/worker for each requested building, there is nothing to spoil, just a hint to remember. I think you should also add that you also have to start a expedtion (that was not that clear to me).


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-11-03, 17:54

It is completly logical that if a buiding floods so does its flaag and road, it is no longer part of the economy, and thw worker cannot walk on water so he dies.

No the flag ist still alive when the builing floodes/crashes.

When the building is destroyed, all workers within drown before they can get out. (only realistic)

add a information which wares/workers you need for finishing this tutorial (list materials/tools/wares/workes for "shipyard", "weaving mill", "habor", "expedition", "ship")

No need to have a list of building material, but we could add a hint that a seamstress (=needles) and a shipwright (=hammer) will be necessary, and the optimum priority of building the required sites (first start the port as it usually needs longest, then build the shipyard; weaving mill is not as urgent).

P.S. It seems to be quite normal that one does not manage to complete this scenario on the first try without reloading. Personally I find scenarios where you play through easily in one go a bit dull…

Edited: 2019-11-03, 18:00

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-11-04, 01:10

Nordfriese wrote:

No need to have a list of building material, but we could add a hint that a seamstress (=needles) and a shipwright (=hammer) will be necessary, and the optimum priority of building the required sites (first start the port as it usually needs longest, then build the shipyard; weaving mill is not as urgent).

i don't think it will change anything.

the problem is that most players (including me) will quickly build up economy near their starting position. then, against an ai, it's not worth expanding too much, so you leave your basic economy there. you may make more farms around, but every important building, every source of all the basic construction materials, it will all be in the west. and it will get flooded before you can salvage anything. there is no amount of hinting, short of straight out telling the player to make a warehouse on the east and stock it full, that will change that.

what can actually be done, though, is to add an autosave when the player comes close to the enemy headquarter. that way, if he wasn't saving often, he won't have to reload all the way to 3 hours earlier.

P.S. It seems to be quite normal that one does not manage to complete this scenario on the first try without reloading. Personally I find scenarios where you play through easily in one go a bit dull…

I agree on that, though i don't really like the way this is set up (virtually impossible if you don't know the trick, very easy once you do).

By the way, a bit of a tangent here, but if the other guy curses you and the island get flooded, the answer is probably to convert to his god, who is clearly much stronger than whatever you worship.

then again, they were worshipping him, and you defeated them; so their god had the power to send floods, but not to protect his people? that's food for a big theological debate.

EDIT: on another tangent, is it intentional that all the text of the campaign come across as self-centered doublethink? Your chief talks very self-righteous about other people being bad and infringing on your rights and being forced to take up arms against them, but in practice what you're doing is landing in other people's lands, claiming them as your own, and killing anyone who disagrees

Edited: 2019-11-04, 01:17

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-11-04, 08:44

what can actually be done, though, is to add an autosave when the player comes close to the enemy headquarter. that way, if he wasn't saving often, he won't have to reload all the way to 3 hours earlier.

Good point, I´ll add an autosave when the player is about (how far exactly? ~40 fields?) away from the HQ, and add a hint in the final objective that he can reload that one if he doesn´t have enough time to move enough stuff eastwards.

By the way, a bit of a tangent here, but if the other guy curses you and the island get flooded, the answer is probably to convert to his god, who is clearly much stronger than whatever you worship.

Worship me or I´ll drown you all, hehe… wonderful attitude, who wouldn´t want to love him.
The gods Reebaud worship just trust him that he (you) can cope with the flood without their help.

then again, they were worshipping him, and you defeated them; so their god had the power to send floods, but not to protect his people? that's food for a big theological debate.

In the Holy Bible, the Lord God often does not help his people directly but can be rather vindictive against those who behave in an inacceptable way against them…

EDIT: on another tangent, is it intentional that all the text of the campaign come across as self-centered doublethink? Your chief talks very self-righteous about other people being bad and infringing on your rights and being forced to take up arms against them, but in practice what you're doing is landing in other people's lands, claiming them as your own, and killing anyone who disagrees

Finally someone noticed face-grin.png


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1269
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Posted at: 2019-11-04, 18:12

king_of_nowhere wrote:

I agree on that, though i don't really like the way this is set up (virtually impossible if you don't know the trick, very easy once you do).

+1


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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