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Topic: Widelands player rating: call for games

trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 218
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 15:13

Hello dear widelands players!

We are trying to create a constant widelands ranking between players. The first stage isn't even attained, but what is sure is that we are gonna need a lot of data to make it work fine. Hence why I declare open the widelands ranking on this thread!

How does it works?

Each player that want to participate have to say so in this thread. ==> No game will be taken into account if all players involved didn't specify they wanted to participate in the ranking BEFORE the game.

After a game, any one of the player (see Rules for exceptions) has to send here, using the template below:

  • Player(s) involved (please precise team if pertinent) and their tribe
  • the result of the game
  • the map played
  • type of game (autocrat, wood gnome ...)
  • the full replay in zip, with every part if pertinent
  • Number of part of the game and different time at which they were played
  • Exact start date and hour

Template (markdown)

Copy and paste this in your post

* **Player and their tribe:**
* **Results:**
* **Map:**
* **Type of game:**
* **Number of parts:**
* **Date:**

And Please put the replay in your comment, now that the feature is available face-smile.png

Rules

  • Any type of game and number of players is accepted (even unequal match like 1vs2), but we will have different ranking in the end. At least for 1vs1 and the rest.
  • No game should be played in more than 1 week
  • Some yet unknown arbiter will be reserved the right to remove a game from the ranking if there is suspicion of trying to meddle with the score artificially (play false games were one always win against another player to game points, ...)
  • If one player stop the game without asking the other player (disconnection problem for example), he has to reconnect and finish the game in the hour or contact the other player and agree on another finish time. Else game is won by other player.
  • There are no abandon button, but if you want to abandon, you can. Only rule here is then that the player that abandoned is the one that has to post the result of the game here.
  • If a tie is decided, BOTH player have to send the game data after the game. (Notice that autocrat matches on maps with separate islands may result in a draw)

The rules and detail might need a change in the future. I'm sorry I don't have the experience of some other people here in organizing these stuff face-tongue.png Please tell if you thing of something

Current score

technical data

  • All tournaments games and games reported in this post taken into account except for ties, that are not yet implemented.

  • Note that the glicko score is still in development and highly prone to errors.

  • There shouldn't be any error in manipulation this time, but please notify if you see an error.

  • Step 5 of glicko not yet really taken into account

current configuration is:

  • base standard deviation: 300
  • base score: 1500
  • base volatility: 0.06
  • tau: 0.2
  • number of game calculated each time: 10

Current ranking

Edited: 2019-09-09, 00:19

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WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1313
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 18:26

trimard wrote:

Hello dear widelands players!

We are trying to create a constant widelands ranking between players. The first stage isn't even attained, but what is sure is that we are gonna need a lot of data to make it work fine. Hence why I declare open the widelands ranking on this thread!

Awesome!

The rules and detail might need a change in the future. I'm sorry I don't have the experience of some other people here in organizing these stuff face-tongue.png Please tell if you thing of something

What about "Notice that autocrat matches on maps with separate islands may result in a draw". And what about using a time limit, for example something like 50h of game time?

I think that it could make sense to limit the allowed maps to official maps which are not marked as imbalanced, plus the maps of the 2019 tournament.

Otherwise, it would also be allowed to play on a map where blue player cannot lose, but still win. This could be exploited to manipulate the own rating number...


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 218
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 18:34

think that it could make sense to limit the allowed maps to official maps which are not marked as imbalanced, plus the maps of the 2019 tournament.

Otherwise, it would also be allowed to play on a map where blue player cannot lose, but still win. This could be exploited to manipulate the own rating number...

I agree, but I think all maps should be accepted. Just not in the same mode. There is a ranked "all map, all mode" in the initial proposition.

Besides. If we want to make a selected pool of map, I would prefer we select much fewer map that the current "officials" ones. But I think we should keep that in mind for latter. After we have more ideas on what the system will look like. For now on, the real important factor we have a lack of, is games played, and data to play with.

Let's say it's the first season or something?

Btw, should I count you in?


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1313
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 19:08

trimard wrote:

think that it could make sense to limit the allowed maps to official maps which are not marked as imbalanced, plus the maps of the 2019 tournament.

Otherwise, it would also be allowed to play on a map where blue player cannot lose, but still win. This could be exploited to manipulate the own rating number...

I agree, but I think all maps should be accepted. Just not in the same mode. There is a ranked "all map, all mode" in the initial proposition.

What are the other modes?

Besides. If we want to make a selected pool of map, I would prefer we select much fewer map that the current "officials" ones. But I think we should keep that in mind for latter. After we have more ideas on what the system will look like. For now on, the real important factor we have a lack of, is games played, and data to play with.

Let's say it's the first season or something?

Depends on your ideas with the modes

Btw, should I count you in?

Yes. Who is up for a rated match?

Edited: 2019-07-28, 19:16

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 218
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 21:13

What are the other modes?

there is:

  • 1vs1 (future selected map)
  • 2vs2 (future selected map)
  • all type, all map, all number of player

Sorry, I didn't intend to have this discussion on that thread though, maybe we should keep implementation issues in the other thread. Here it's for rules and people who want to join and play. face-smile.png

Yes. Who is up for a rated match?

Me :), next week end? See scheduling.

Edited: 2019-07-28, 21:14

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1445
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-07-28, 21:28

i think the tournament should be retroactively rated.

regardless, i want to be put in the ranking for the future


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1313
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-07-29, 21:32

king_of_nowhere wrote:

i think the tournament should be retroactively rated.

I could be happy with that, but imho it should only be done if everybody in the tournament agrees.

trimard wrote:

What are the other modes?

there is:

  • 1vs1 (future selected map)
  • 2vs2 (future selected map)
  • all type, all map, all number of player

Okay... As I mentioned in the other thread, imbalanced and/or inofficial maps could be abused to manipulate the rating, so an "all map" rating could get pointless eventually.

And what about to select already all official non-imbalanced maps + fjords 1.2 + crossriver artifacts for 1vs1 and 2vs2?

Suggestion for the rules: "Version has to be build 20 or newer"

Is it allowed to play 1vs2 in the 2vs2 mode?

Sorry, I didn't intend to have this discussion on that thread though, maybe we should keep implementation issues in the other thread. Here it's for rules and people who want to join and play. face-smile.png

It's not only an implementation issue, it's also a rule issue face-wink.png

Yes. Who is up for a rated match?

Me :), next week end? See scheduling.

(this conversation is now in the PM area)


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 139
Ranking
At home in WL-forums
Posted at: 2019-07-29, 21:44

World und ich wollen ein / zwei gewertetes Spiel spielen, auf Crossriver Artifacts, Alleinherrscher, 29.7. 22 Uhr edit: world hat gewonnen

Falls jemand noch Rating Spiele spielen will, schreibt einfach ne pm

Edited: 2019-07-29, 23:31

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WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1313
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-07-29, 23:29

the-x wrote:

World und ich wollen ein gewertetes Spiel spielen, auf Crossriver Artifacts, Alleinherrscher, 29.7. 22 Uhr

Translation: "World(Savior) and me want to play a rated match, at crossriver arti., autocrat"

So, that's what we did, and we also played another rated match with identical setup.

So: both matches are:

  • other(s) player(s) involved (please precise team if pertinent)

the-x

  • the result of the game

WorldSavior 1 - 0 the-x

  • the map played

Crossriver Artifacts from the tournament

  • type of game (autocrat, wood gnome ...)

autocrat

  • the full replay in zip, with every part if pertinent

I don't know the upload page a lot. Is it fine?

match 1: https://ufile.io/yjrpts50

match 2: https://ufile.io/gew7nn6i

  • Number of part of the game and different time at which they were played

both matches in 1 part each.

Beginning match 1: 19/7/29 21:46

Beginning match 2: 19/7/29 22:26

Edit1: The upload page deletes the files after 30 days. @Launchpad Admins: Would it be possible to attach files to another bug report at launchpad?

Edit2: Both matches have been intensely and the-x played very well

Edit 3:

the-x wrote:

edit: world hat gewonnen

Translation: "World(Savior) has won".

Edited: 2019-07-30, 17:32

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 218
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-07-30, 19:13

i think the tournament should be retroactively rated.

ooh! Dind't think you would say so! Cool! Should I add everyone directly or asks every player? I think I can add the score of every players that participate in the ranking and has played in the tournament.

Translation

Thanks face-tongue.png

World(Savior) and me want to play a rated match, at crossriver arti., autocrat"

So, that's what we did, and we also played another rated match with identical setup.

Nice!.. But, I'm wondering, should I be authoritarian and say that "the-x" should have said he would particpate? Or should I rather be tolerant, knowing that the purpose of such rules is to avoid people not reporting game where they loosed? I know it's a scenario that risk happening a lot more in the future so I ask!

Waiting for answers before adding them face-smile.png

Anyway, I'm now counting the-x in, that's for sure.

So: both matches are:

For the future please try to use the template given above, so it'll be easier for me to retrieve the data when reading the post. I've modified the description to talk about that. But thanks to have answered all the questions!

So that's what the data look like:

  • Other player: the-x
  • Results: WorldSavior 1 - 0 the-x
  • Map: Crossriver Artifacts from the tournament
  • Type of game: autocrat
  • Replay link: https://ufile.io/yjrpts50
  • Number of parts: 1
  • date: 19/7/29 21:46

match 2:

  • Other player: the-x
  • Results: WorldSavior 1 - 0 the-x
  • Map: Crossriver Artifacts from the tournament
  • Type of game: autocrat
  • Replay link: https://ufile.io/gew7nn6i
  • Number of parts: 1
  • date: 19/7/29 22:26

Edit2: Both matches have been intensely and the-x played very well

I'm not surprised, I think I'll watch these replays!

And what about to select already all official non-imbalanced maps + fjords 1.2 + crossriver artifacts for 1vs1 and 2vs2?

Yes why not? Though, are there really such "all official" non-imbalanced maps ?

"Version has to be build 20 or newer"

Yes, good point. Maybe even restrict to build20 only? Some op features could appear in the trunk, even more so than there is discussion around balance. On the other hand, more players for the trunk means more bug report. I don't know.

Is it allowed to play 1vs2 in the 2vs2 mode? Yes!

Edited: 2019-07-30, 19:20

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