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Topic: Widelands player rating: call for games

WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-07-30, 19:20

trimard wrote:

Translation

Thanks face-tongue.png

You're welcome.

World(Savior) and me want to play a rated match, at crossriver arti., autocrat"

So, that's what we did, and we also played another rated match with identical setup.

Nice!.. But, I'm wondering, should I be authoritarian and say that "the-x" should have said he would particpate? Or should I rather be tolerant, knowing that the purpose of such rules is to avoid people not reporting game where they loosed?

Well... The x posted in this thread and said that he wants to play a rated match against me. Doesn't this imply that he wants to participate in the rating? The problem is that he wrote in German, but the rules don't say that one has to write in English face-tongue.png A translator tool could translate German well into English for you.

For the future please try to use the template given above, so it'll be easier for me to retrieve the data when reading the post. I've modified the description to talk about that. But thanks to have answered all the questions!

Okay

Edit2: Both matches have been intensely and the-x played very well

I'm not surprised, I think I'll watch these replays!

Have fun


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
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Posted at: 2019-07-30, 19:23

The x posted in this thread and said that he wants to play a rated match against me. Doesn't this imply that he wants to participate in the rating?

Neverrrrrr minddd! Didn't see his post!

A translator tool could translate German well into English for you.

Yes and tbh, I could understand it if I took the time. I did german, but it was a long time ago, and I wasn't already that great.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-07-30, 20:25

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

i think the tournament should be retroactively rated.

I could be happy with that, but imho it should only be done if everybody in the tournament agrees.

No objections from my side, although I will probably not play much rated games outside tournaments


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-07-30, 20:50

trimard wrote:

And what about to select already all official non-imbalanced maps + fjords 1.2 + crossriver artifacts for 1vs1 and 2vs2?

Yes why not? Though, are there really such "all official" non-imbalanced maps ?

Yes, there are, but I spotted a new problem. The Nile is non-imbalanced, but blue and red starting positions are much better than all others. So your idea with the selection might be better. Though the Nile is okay if the selected starting positions look similar.

There might also be further non-imbalanced official maps with the same problem. (For example the blue position of Archipelago Sea is much better than the green position, but the map is still not marked as imbalanced face-wink.png )

"Version has to be build 20 or newer"

Yes, good point. Maybe even restrict to build20 only? Some op features could appear in the trunk, even more so than there is discussion around balance. On the other hand, more players for the trunk means more bug report. I don't know.

I vote for "official development builds (trunk) allowed".

Is it allowed to play 1vs2 in the 2vs2 mode? Yes!

Very good face-smile.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-07-31, 02:38

WorldSavior wrote:

Yes, there are, but I spotted a new problem. The Nile is non-imbalanced, but blue and red starting positions are much better than all others. So your idea with the selection might be better. Though the Nile is okay if the selected starting positions look similar.

There might also be further non-imbalanced official maps with the same problem. (For example the blue position of Archipelago Sea is much better than the green position, but the map is still not marked as imbalanced face-wink.png )

how about we just ignore the problem of map balance and trust players to avoid doing something stupid and random deviations neutralizing each other for the slightly imbalanced maps?


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-07-31, 18:22

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Yes, there are, but I spotted a new problem. The Nile is non-imbalanced, but blue and red starting positions are much better than all others. So your idea with the selection might be better. Though the Nile is okay if the selected starting positions look similar.

There might also be further non-imbalanced official maps with the same problem. (For example the blue position of Archipelago Sea is much better than the green position, but the map is still not marked as imbalanced face-wink.png )

how about we just ignore the problem of map balance and trust players to avoid doing something stupid and random deviations neutralizing each other for the slightly imbalanced maps?

I think that rating manipulations should be prevented. And anyway, matches with starting positions of equal quality are better than matches with starting positions of different quality.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-07-31, 20:42

WorldSavior wrote:

I think that rating manipulations should be prevented.

what exactly do you mean "rating manipulations"? if you are thinking players A and B conspiring to increase playeer A rating by having him always play in the best position, then they can equally well decide that player B is going to lose intentionally. If instead you are thinking one player trying to manipulate others into letting him take the best positions, we are far too small a community for it to go undetected. players would start figuring out that the maps are inbalanced. I don't think we have to worry that someone will try to use map inbalance to manipulate ratings.

And, as I already made the point, as long as me and you play the game, I don't think anyone can manipulate the rating too much before slamming into one of us.

And anyway, matches with starting positions of equal quality are better than matches with starting positions of different quality.

I totally agree in principle. However, it's not so easy to balance mmaps perfectly. archipelago sea is the perfect example: every buulding space and every resource is carefully accounted for, and yet one player has a better starting position, and there's no way of figuring it except by playing several times all starting positions until you got the best start, and timing how long you take to reach certain milestones. Even symmetrical maps may have hidden sources of imbalance.

And I see a value in having matches on dubious maps, i.e. checking them. We'd never have discovered archipelago sea is imbalanced if we hadn't played on it. If we allow people to have multiple games on several maps, it may help figure out which ones need working


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2019-08-01, 18:47

I agree with king_of_nowhere: Players have to trust each other. If a player knows all the good and bad things on a map, he is probably better. But i think most players don't want to do several testplaying on a map to find out wich starting position or which tribe is the best on a particular map, they just want to have fun face-smile.png


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Hasi50
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Joined: 2015-12-28, 16:19
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Posted at: 2019-08-04, 13:22

Today I will play against WorldSavior, we will play IceWars in Collectors mode.


Here are the widelands where people may dwell, walking around care that evrythings well.

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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-08-04, 15:38

Hasi50 wrote:

Today I will play against WorldSavior, we will play IceWars in Collectors mode.

I won that match. More soon in the edit...

Edit: Here it is:

 * **Player:**   WorldSavior vs Hasi50
 * **Results:** WorldSavior 1 - 0 Hasi50
 * **Map:** Ice Wars
 * **Type of game:** Collectors

 * **Replay link:**   https://ufile.io/rhglog58
 * **Number of parts:** 1
 * **Date:**       4th August 2019
Edited: 2019-08-04, 15:48

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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