Currently Online

Latest Posts

Topic: Widelands player rating: call for games

king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1422
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-08-18, 23:37

players: the-x, King of Nowhere

Result: the-x 0 - 1 King of Nowhere

Map: ice wars

Type of game: Autocrat

Date: 2019/8/18

Edited: 2019-08-18, 23:37

Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1245
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-08-19, 20:23

king_of_nowhere wrote:

players: the-x, King of Nowhere

Result: the-x 0 - 1 King of Nowhere

Map: ice wars

Type of game: Autocrat

Date: 2019/8/18

So you played autocrat on Ice Wars and the-x didn't conquer an island in order to get undefeatable? That's also interesting face-wink.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1422
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-08-20, 02:38

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

players: the-x, King of Nowhere

Result: the-x 0 - 1 King of Nowhere

Map: ice wars

Type of game: Autocrat

Date: 2019/8/18

So you played autocrat on Ice Wars and the-x didn't conquer an island in order to get undefeatable? That's also interesting face-wink.png

right: how should we treat such cases? becuase IMO if one player evicts the other from the continent then it's a win regardless of small islands that cannot be attacked, but there must be a clear rule on it before the situation actually happens.


Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1245
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-08-20, 07:58

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

players: the-x, King of Nowhere

Result: the-x 0 - 1 King of Nowhere

Map: ice wars

Type of game: Autocrat

Date: 2019/8/18

So you played autocrat on Ice Wars and the-x didn't conquer an island in order to get undefeatable? That's also interesting face-wink.png

right: how should we treat such cases?

As a draw

becuase IMO if one player evicts the other from the continent then it's a win regardless of small islands that cannot be attacked,

I don't think so. "small island" cannot easily be defined, why not simply playing territorial lord on Ice wars instead of autocrat?

but there must be a clear rule on it before the situation actually happens.

Maybe that a player who conquered a small island can claim a draw in the forum.

By the way, another important rule would be that only headquarters are the allowed starting conditions (or should we also allow others?)

Maybe some more rules from your tournaments should be "copied" more or less, for example the draw rule for very long games without a winner.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1422
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-08-20, 14:21

WorldSavior wrote:

So you played autocrat on Ice Wars and the-x didn't conquer an island in order to get undefeatable? That's also interesting face-wink.png

right: how should we treat such cases?

As a draw

becuase IMO if one player evicts the other from the continent then it's a win regardless of small islands that cannot be attacked,

I don't think so. "small island" cannot easily be defined, why not simply playing territorial lord on Ice wars instead of autocrat?

people may just feel like it. but as a general point, the idea that a colony makes you undefeatable seems too easy an exploit. as for small islands being too difficult to define, that's not really the case. i can't think of any official map where there is such a problem. I mean, in ice wars if you conque the mainland you clearly defeated your opponent in combat, which is what actuallly matters

but there must be a clear rule on it before the situation actually happens.

Maybe that a player who conquered a small island can claim a draw in the forum.

i ddon't like that. but if others agree with it, i will accept it and be careful about the maps i play.

personally, i propose that if one loses the land of his headquarter and has no possible way of recapturing it (as in, he gets cut away from the mainland) it's a loss.

Maybe some more rules from your tournaments should be "copied" more or less, for example the draw rule for very long games without a winner.

that could apply for games that were started and never finished. although the tournament rules state that one can claim victory if he has advantage there, and the games must be reviewed by the referee. we can't do that if we expand the ranked system

Edited: 2019-08-20, 14:27

Top Quote
einstein13
Avatar
Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1080
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2019-08-20, 15:04

As I answered here: https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/4583/?page=10#post-29397, there is a possibility to be flexible on the rules. First, general solution, is that every map can be defined how the situation should be applied. We can go through all the maps and see if the starting position is a mainland or equal land or minor land. Second, if the players accept something else, this should be taken for consideration (they pick specific rules). But this should be stored somewhere, just to see if general solution is not useful.

i can't think of any official map where there is such a problem.

I am not sure if "Wideworld" is an official map now. If so, there is an exception. This map was designed to be useful for combat on the water. Unfortunately we still don't have solution for water combats now (very old topic).

personally, i propose that if one loses the land of his headquarter and has no possible way of recapturing it (as in, he gets cut away from the mainland) it's a loss.

It is a first attempt, but not a regular basis.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1422
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-08-20, 15:07

einstein13 wrote:

As I answered here: https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/4583/?page=10#post-29397, there is a possibility to be flexible on the rules. First, general solution, is that every map can be defined how the situation should be applied.

perhaps this is the best solution, as there is only a small number of maps. and the condition can be written in the hints and be clearly accessible to everyone


Top Quote
trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 193
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-08-30, 15:50

Ok, so I updated the score win the win ratio board done with the module. face-smile.png

I'll implement the whole thing a bit better, and then focus on the actual glicko2. But at least now you guys have some idea of the current score face-smile.png


Top Quote
einstein13
Avatar
Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1080
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2019-08-30, 18:34

trimard wrote:

Ok, so I updated the score win the win ratio board done with the module. face-smile.png

First, I had a question "where can we see the result", but then I have seen first post (https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/4599/?page=1#post-29108).

Perfect solution for now! face-smile.png
You give all necessary information and it is very clear.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1245
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-08-31, 20:15

einstein13 wrote:

trimard wrote:

Ok, so I updated the score win the win ratio board done with the module. face-smile.png

First, I had a question "where can we see the result", but then I have seen first post (https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/4599/?page=1#post-29108).

Perfect solution for now! face-smile.png You give all necessary information and it is very clear.

Now you are sounding again like this should be the only rating system face-wink.png

By the way I think that KoN has played 4 rated matches. At the other hand, the replays of his 3 the-x-matches are still missing : (

trimard wrote:

Ok, so I updated the score win the win ratio board done with the module. face-smile.png

Thanks

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

So you played autocrat on Ice Wars and the-x didn't conquer an island in order to get undefeatable? That's also interesting face-wink.png

right: how should we treat such cases?

As a draw

becuase IMO if one player evicts the other from the continent then it's a win regardless of small islands that cannot be attacked,

I don't think so. "small island" cannot easily be defined, why not simply playing territorial lord on Ice wars instead of autocrat?

people may just feel like it. but as a general point, the idea that a colony makes you undefeatable seems too easy an exploit.

One could just avoid playing autocrat there, territorial lord is a good replacement

as for small islands being too difficult to define, that's not really the case. i can't think of any official map where there is such a problem. I mean, in ice wars if you conque the mainland you clearly defeated your opponent in combat, which is what actuallly matters

If you conquered the mainland, you could also have played territorial lord because there it's a direct win.

but there must be a clear rule on it before the situation actually happens.

Maybe that a player who conquered a small island can claim a draw in the forum.

i ddon't like that. but if others agree with it, i will accept it and be careful about the maps i play.

personally, i propose that if one loses the land of his headquarter and has no possible way of recapturing it (as in, he gets cut away from the mainland) it's a loss.

I'm against it. In the 2017 tournament we had the map "together we are strong", there the colony island has much more resources than the main island, and there it would have been a draw if each player controls an island, and this rule was just fine.

Maybe some more rules from your tournaments should be "copied" more or less, for example the draw rule for very long games without a winner.

that could apply for games that were started and never finished. although the tournament rules state that one can claim victory if he has advantage there, and the games must be reviewed by the referee. we can't do that if we expand the ranked system

why?


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

Top Quote