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Topic: non-atlanteans need a buff

WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-08-22, 20:18

king_of_nowhere wrote:

the first 5 players at the tournament all used atlanteans as their main tribe, it's hard to call that a coincidence.

I didn't use them as my main tribe, I played them only two times, one time it was rather a random decision. For me it looks like atlanteans are not the best choice for the rounds 3 and 5, maybe even not for 2. Just saying...


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-08-28, 19:33

I have created a branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/balancing-201908/+merge/371947

It's not clear to me from this discussion what has been agreed upon, except for the Barbarian Evade thing. So, everybody is welcome to fiddle with that branch.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-08-28, 20:01

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-28, 20:49

One thing I like about barbarians compared to emp&atl is that all their medium military buildings have the same conquer range. So how about increasing the radius for both?


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-28, 21:19

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

I see no reason not to.

GunChleoc wrote:

It's not clear to me from this discussion what has been agreed upon

neither to me. I was hoping we could agree on something, because I think it's agreed that a slight buff is needed. So, while we don't have a democratic process, let's see if there is something akin to voting for doing the following stuff:

Empire

  • decrease the cost of training empire soldiers in both evade levels from 2 bread to 1 bread.
  • double the work speed of piggeries

Barbarians

  • decrease the cost of training in evade 2 from two bread to 1 bread
  • increase evade by 1% per level
  • increase conquer radius of the tower from 8 to 9

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-08-28, 21:37

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

I see no reason not to.

GunChleoc wrote:

It's not clear to me from this discussion what has been agreed upon

neither to me. I was hoping we could agree on something, because I think it's agreed that a slight buff is needed. So, while we don't have a democratic process, let's see if there is something akin to voting for doing the following stuff:

Basically there were no big disagreements, only that I was not and stil am not convinced about the reduction of training costs for non atlanteans. but I agreed on trying it out. So this is what is my understanding of the current state of discussion.

Empire

  • decrease the cost of training empire soldiers in both evade levels from 2 bread to 1 bread.
  • double the work speed of piggeries
  • increase speed of vineyards so that 2 vineyards could support a little bit more than one winery.

Barbarians

  • decrease the cost of training in evade 2 from two bread to 1 bread
  • increase evade by 1% per level
  • increase conquer radius of the tower from 8 to 9
  • increase barbarian farmer to have the same work cycle as empire/atlanteans

Frisians

  • adapt farmers work cycle to match the other tribes
  • reduce food cost for training ( not discussed in numbers - Maybe WorldSavior could provide some suggestion to discuss)
Edited: 2019-08-28, 21:37

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JanO
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Posted at: 2019-08-29, 00:34

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

Would it then be reasonable to slightly increase the construction-cost for the tower? Or decrease it for the barrier, as we talk about buffs for non-atlanteans.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-09-01, 12:58

JanO wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

Would it then be reasonable to slightly increase the construction-cost for the tower?

I don't think so, it's already very expensive because of the high amount of blackwood.

Or decrease it for the barrier, as we talk about buffs for non-atlanteans.

One could think about this, because 5 blackwood means a lot of wood. (or the conquer radius could be increased by 1, then reducing the costs wouldn't make sense, I guess)

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

I see no reason not to.

GunChleoc wrote:

It's not clear to me from this discussion what has been agreed upon

neither to me. I was hoping we could agree on something, because I think it's agreed that a slight buff is needed. So, while we don't have a democratic process, let's see if there is something akin to voting for doing the following stuff:

Basically there were no big disagreements, only that I was not and stil am not convinced about the reduction of training costs for non atlanteans. but I agreed on trying it out. So this is what is my understanding of the current state of discussion.

Empire

  • decrease the cost of training empire soldiers in both evade levels from 2 bread to 1 bread.

This would mean a revolution for the empire on small maps, but at the other hand I think that the empire could need such a revolution there.

Frisians

  • adapt farmers work cycle to match the other tribes

Testing also shows that barley lives to long. If you destroy a frisian farm, it takes like ages until the barley vanishes - longer than other plants, right?

  • reduce food cost for training ( not discussed in numbers - Maybe WorldSavior could provide some suggestion to discuss)

Okay, my suggestion is:

Broad sword needs (bear or bread) and (smoked fish or smoked meat)

Double sword needs (bear or bread) and (smoked fish or smoked meat)

(And it looks that the priority order of the 4 food wares should be switched around here in the camp, because beer seems to be more expensive than bread and both more expensive than smoked fish / meat)

Second Long sword needs (mead or honey bread) and (smoked fish/meat)

Second broad sword needs (mead or honey bread) and (smoked fish/meat)

Nordfriese wrote:

One thing I like about barbarians compared to emp&atl is that all their medium military buildings have the same conquer range.

I see, this is unique

So how about increasing the radius for both?

I wouldn't mind...


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-02, 10:46

WorldSavior wrote:

JanO wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

Would it then be reasonable to slightly increase the construction-cost for the tower?

I don't think so, it's already very expensive because of the high amount of blackwood.

Or decrease it for the barrier, as we talk about buffs for non-atlanteans.

One could think about this, because 5 blackwood means a lot of wood. (or the conquer radius could be increased by 1, then reducing the costs wouldn't make sense, I guess)

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What about increasing the conquer radius from barbarian towers from 8 to 9? Every other tribe has a medium building with conquer radius 9, and the barbarian barrier has also radius 8.

I see no reason not to.

GunChleoc wrote:

It's not clear to me from this discussion what has been agreed upon

neither to me. I was hoping we could agree on something, because I think it's agreed that a slight buff is needed. So, while we don't have a democratic process, let's see if there is something akin to voting for doing the following stuff:

Basically there were no big disagreements, only that I was not and stil am not convinced about the reduction of training costs for non atlanteans. but I agreed on trying it out. So this is what is my understanding of the current state of discussion.

Empire

  • decrease the cost of training empire soldiers in both evade levels from 2 bread to 1 bread.

This would mean a revolution for the empire on small maps, but at the other hand I think that the empire could need such a revolution there.

Would it be just an evolution to reduce it for second level only? Or just reduce both of them in the colloseum leaving the arena at 2 bread, giving more meaning to have colloseum at all?

Frisians

  • adapt farmers work cycle to match the other tribes

Testing also shows that barley lives to long. If you destroy a frisian farm, it takes like ages until the barley vanishes - longer than other plants, right?

Correct, but I can't see a big disadvantage in this. In contrary an opponent who conquered some frisian farmspace can't use it for quite a while.

  • reduce food cost for training ( not discussed in numbers - Maybe WorldSavior could provide some suggestion to discuss)

Okay, my suggestion is:

Broad sword needs (bear or bread) and (smoked fish or smoked meat)

Double sword needs (bear or bread) and (smoked fish or smoked meat)

(And it looks that the priority order of the 4 food wares should be switched around here in the camp, because beer seems to be more expensive than bread and both more expensive than smoked fish / meat)

Second Long sword needs (mead or honey bread) and (smoked fish/meat)

Second broad sword needs (mead or honey bread) and (smoked fish/meat)

Sounds reasonable to me, perhaps we could use a cheaper second smoked Meat fish instead of beer/ bread for the first double sword and the second broad sword to not overdo it. Resulting in
Double sword needs (bear or bread) and (2 smoked fish or smoked meat)
Second broad sword needs (mead or honey bread) and (2 smoked fish/meat)

Nordfriese wrote:

One thing I like about barbarians compared to emp&atl is that all their medium military buildings have the same conquer range.

I see, this is unique

So how about increasing the radius for both?

I wouldn't mind...

me neither

However from the discussions in another thread I saw that barbarians and empire have a disadvantage on maps where gold is far away as they can't build both training sites with the starting gold for empire this should be ok as the arena is completely gold free, however for barbarians we could probably lower the costs a bit.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 09:05

The branch has been moved to https://github.com/widelands/widelands/tree/balancing-201908


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