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Topic: new tribe: amazons

king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 01:20

I can't make treetop sentries, but i assume they weren't implemented yet.

the gardening center is not using any resource, while it should do so.

is there a reason for the training glade to hold so little food? it should be 6 fish, 6 meat, 6 bread or something like that. all other tribes can store much food in their training camps. warrior's gathering is fine instead, as it only gives 2 promotions

it's difficult to say when spears and boots are in the training camps. they need some stronger color to stand out better when they are there. perhaps a thicker shaft would make them more visible

training glade kicks out soldiers too fast, even when it's still working

it took me 90 minutes to get the first supersoldier. considering all the snags i faced, it seems likely that the power level for a skilled user will be on par with atlanteans, which was the target.

Edited: 2019-09-10, 01:44

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 08:14

king_of_nowhere wrote:

first report: economy looks deceptvely easy, but it's made very complicated by all those trees. I got stuck with no ropes because i only had one rope weaver, when it was time to upgrade some woodcutters. so my woodcutters did not upgrade, while i already had several rare trees planters planting. and they were blocking a lot of land! rare trees are quite hard to manage, they can be a hassle if there isn't a cutter nearby. I'm slowly fiing that snag, let's see the food economy next.

that was my first impression as well. Looks easy but is hard. Rope is essential you need at least 2 rope weaver and 4 liana cutter I believe. Rare trees are indeed complicated you need to plan for them to have enough woodcutters to upgrade without leaving a normal junglemaster alone. And rare wood is exactly this in the game it is rare face-wink.png

regarding the AI, does the AI manage the junglemasters? because it's quite a unique situation, junglemasters are ipgraded from foresters, but they go in a different building, so it's not a matter of upgrading the building.

this is not consistent yet. I have to look in it. By accident they dismantle some jungle masters Huts and free some junglemasters by it. If we can make the Ai handle this even if not good I'd like to keep it as it adds another level of complexity for the player to micromanage.
Bigger problem for the Ai is to handle Rare tree plantation to be built near normal woodcutters which need to be upgraded. Also I had one Ai run into a wood deadlock by upgrading all but one woodcutter leaving the remaining one without trees. So there is still some work to do.

EDIT: on an unrelated note, i don't like the new menu system. if i click on the menu, i want to open it. i don't need it to be small at the bottom of the pagenot obstructing my view, because i wanted to actually focus on the menu


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Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 08:25

As for the changes to AI in regard to foresters and cutters - can you describe what minimal changes to AI are needed?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 08:29

king_of_nowhere wrote:

I can't make treetop sentries, but i assume they weren't implemented yet.

they are implemented already only thin is you need a mature tree with a free flag to the southeast. This (needing is why they aren't little more then an eye gimmick.

the gardening center is not using any resource, while it should do so.

OOps. My fault I will correct that

is there a reason for the training glade to hold so little food? it should be 6 fish, 6 meat, 6 bread or something like that. all other tribes can store much food in their training camps. warrior's gathering is fine instead, as it only gives 2 promotions

no specific reason but I counted the total amount of wares and wanted them to be in the range of other tribes big buildings storage capacity. I will increase them to the max storage of the other tribes ok.

it's difficult to say when spears and boots are in the training camps. they need some stronger color to stand out better when they are there. perhaps a thicker shaft would make them more visible

Graphics are only a placeholder yet (except the wares other tribes use) so we should concentrate on the mechanics of the tribe first.

training glade kicks out soldiers too fast, even when it's still working

Ok I will increase trainers patience

it took me 90 minutes to get the first supersoldier. considering all the snags i faced, it seems likely that the power level for a skilled user will be on par with atlanteans, which was the target.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 08:33

Tibor wrote:

As for the changes to AI in regard to foresters and cutters - can you describe what minimal changes to AI are needed?

No. I can't tell this yet. I'd like to stretch the max Ai performance out of the current implemenation fiddling with Ai hints and Preciousness and so on. Only if there are big shortfalls that can't be solved, I will propose changes. I believe this is what is reasonable according to our discussion so far. I made some progress already yesterday but I didn't upload yet cause it is more the less try and error and I am not completely happy with the result yet.

Edited: 2019-09-10, 08:34

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 15:45

ok, i've seen the treetop sentry. I missed it because there was no suitable symbol over the tree. So far it's been underwhelming. i'll try it on some map with more forest, but if it's still underwhelming i'll suggest to buff it.

main problem i'm seeing so far, master woodcutters take a lot of time to train. around 20 minutes, because their work cycle is so slow. and it's a problem because all advanced buildings require some kind of rare wood, so it puts a choke on the economy. I think it could be resolved by giving a couple of master woodcutters already in the starting wares, so that amazonians could start harvesting rare trees straight away.

I see that rare trees are not a suitable target to build treetop sentries, nor - more importantly - for the wilderness keeper to release animals and for the liana cutter. wilderness keeper should be able to release animals over rare trees, and liana cutters should be able to get lianas from them.

i know graphic comes last, but seeing as how many buildings will need to be made close to trees, i suggest small models to avoid cluttering the view. they should armonize in the forest, not push it away.

dressmaker should be able to store 4 ropes, as both padded vest and padded protector require 2 ropes for making. this messes up the production cycle, because after it finishes making one it never has the wares to make the next

I was able to bring down the time to train a hero to 75 minutes. I'm sure 60 can be reached, which is in line with atlanteans and empire.

the training glade kicked a soldier out even though it had all the wares it needed. probably because it already had all the heal promotions, the training site saw it could not promote it in healt further, saw that it skipped a working cycle, and kicked the soldier. I know you are aware of the training cycle problems, but I reinstate this because I think it's modeled afte rthe frisians, who also have hhuge problems of kicking out soldiers. also, the trainig glade keeps kicking out soldiers at regular intervals even when stopped. i know that at lest with empire or atlanteans you can let a soldier in, stop the building, and the soldier will stay there indefinitely, which is convenient. I know some would like heroes to be harder to make, and I can agree in principle, but a bad mechanic cannot be balanced by making it annoying to use.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 16:27

hessenfarmer wrote:

the gardening center is not using any resource, while it should do so.

OOps. My fault I will correct that

however, the initial value of 1 coal 1 fish to change one single triangle is way too high if this has to be even remotely useful. i think the same cost to change 6 triangles should be fine. ideally it should still change them one by one, or it would be too fast.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 17:30

another glitch: wilderness keeper will try to breed fish in ice floes. where fishers cannot reach them. furthermore, when water ice is available, they seem to only make fish, and not animals.

wather gatherers also are able to get water from ice floes. i'm not against it by itself, but since other tribe's fishers can't use that, amazonians shouldn't either.


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 18:18

Short status report on graphics: I´m quite busy this week and the next, so I´m working only on the wares images at the moment. I´ll push the results to the branch during the next week. Once those are all done I´ll start on the "ship" and then the buildings.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 19:27

king_of_nowhere wrote:

wather gatherers also are able to get water from ice floes. i'm not against it by itself, but since other tribe's fishers can't use that, amazonians shouldn't either.

You seem to be mistaken: Ice floes are like any other water, fishing is possible there. They just contain zero fish by default.

So I think that it's not a problem. It rather brings more complexity that there is some kind of water where Amazons get water but where getting fish is not possible.

Edited: 2019-09-10, 19:27

Attachment: FishAtIceWater.wgf (47.3 KB)

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