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Topic: new tribe: amazons

king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-07, 17:49

hessenfarmer wrote:

The easiest way would be to just pull the branch from launchpad using bazaar. Then you need to install the latest build of Nordfrieses branch and use it with datadir option pointing to the data dir of my branch.
If you can't do this give me a note and I'll try to find another solution.

if bazaar is a program, i don't have it and wouldn't know how to use it.

datadir option looks like some kind of console command, that at least I know what it is, but i know to do with that is copy-paste instuctions in it.

unless it's just a subfolder in the game? Do I have to download nordfriese branch (wherever i may found it), download your branch (again, wherever i may found it), then copy the "data" folder from your branch to nordfriese branch? that I'd be able to do, if I was linked to the two branches.

I'm sorry, my knowledge of programming is limited, and mostly theorietical.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-09-07, 18:09

The base coding you can now get from https://ci.appveyor.com/project/widelands-dev/widelands/builds/27236940, since I have made a merge request.

Then you need to get https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/amazons for its datadir with Bazaar https://www.widelands.org/wiki/BzrPrimer/

The bazaar command is bzr branch lp:~widelands-dev/widelands/amazons.

If that is too difficult for you, we coud make an early merge request to get it up on AppVeypr too.


Busy indexing nil values

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Tibor
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Posted at: 2019-09-07, 20:26

king_of_nowhere wrote:

Tibor wrote:

I am bit nervous about "improvements" in the game that break actual presumptions, f.e. one day we will have farms that as a side activity mine gold and bake bread and somebody will ask to "fix AI"

that's why i believe we would be better off with tribe-specific AI

Also, other tribes need one woodcutter for each forester, but amazonians will likely need two for one, or three for two. another difference that's more easily put into a separate code.

Proportion between woodcutter and forester is not defined. E.g. AI should cope with very different soil, where more foresters are needed for one woodcuter....

One of examples where things are broken here is concept of buildable fields (right here with amazons). These are fields where a building can be built. Or used to be. Now we have those tree-tops. Well, AI would cope with this, but make regular buildable field of this.

Now AI is notified about every single buildable field when it acquires or loses one. It should be similarly notified about this new tree-top buildable fields. AI can have hundreds of trees, those change a lot and recalculate them all regularly is too much burden on CPU. But most of all - we have design for this since the beginning, just hold on it

I can provide more examples if needed


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 20:41

Nordfriese wrote:

Okay, also got the Fatal exception: vector::_M_range_check: __n (which is 255) >= this->size() (which is 131) crash now. Will try to reproduce in GDB…

Also several warnings during gameloading: ~~~~ Error loading tips script for amazons: [../src/scripting/lua_errors.cc:22] The script 'txts/tips/amazons.lua' was not found!

ERROR: Unused key "species" in LuaTable. Please report as a bug. ERROR: Unused key "species" in LuaTable. Please report as a bug. ERROR: Unused key "species" in LuaTable. Please report as a bug.

WARNING: Productionsite amazons_water_gatherers_hut has a workarea but does not inform about any conflicting buildings ~~~~

i will take care of them.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 20:46

GunChleoc wrote:

The base coding you can now get from https://ci.appveyor.com/project/widelands-dev/widelands/builds/27236940, since I have made a merge request.

Then you need to get https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/amazons for its datadir with Bazaar https://www.widelands.org/wiki/BzrPrimer/

The bazaar command is bzr branch lp:~widelands-dev/widelands/amazons.

If that is too difficult for you, we coud make an early merge request to get it up on AppVeypr too.

the first link you provided, i clicked on the only thing that looked like a download file and it said page not found.

the second link you provided, i have no idea what i am supposed to download.

i downloaded bazaar and tried pasting the url in it too, didn't work.

i'm sorry. if it's more complicated than downloading, installing, and moving some folders, then it's too complicated for me


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 20:50

Tibor wrote:

I just say that the asserts must be exact. Either ==0 or ==1. And not loose <=1. It can be done in separate branch, but the result should be that current behavior toward current tribes will not be changed, so assert will for those tribes remain ==1 as it is now.

Proposed <=1 can be used for temporary testing as a workaround.

I am bit nervous about "improvements" in the game that break actual presumptions, f.e. one day we will have farms that as a side activity mine gold and bake bread and somebody will ask to "fix AI"

Making sure that AI survives without hunters and so on is separate task, and I can review the AI code for this.

I really understand your concern, and I will strongly support to keep the basic concept stable. And these things aren't by any way a "fault" of the Ai and therefore they don't need to be fixed.
However If we could add new content to the game that makes it more interesting for new players and gives some new variety for experienced players I beleive we could take the burden to adapt the Ai within the existing concepts to make this possible. This doen't mean we need to have the Ai to be able to play amazons as a presumption (although I would love to have this and will work on it), for the beginning it would be sufficient to just avoid crashes if they got selected by random tribe funtion or erroneusly for an Ai slot.
For the asserts this was already done by GunChleoc with an or statement, but they aren't a big issue as they are only evaluated in debug builds. (that is why I didn't get them in the beginning as I was on release build)


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Tibor
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 21:13

@hessenfarmer

This is matter of angle of view - you say you are creating new tribe, but in fact you are doing changes under of the hood of the game engine. Imagine next tribe will want to build buildings on the water - I am fine with this - as long as it will be regular buildable field. Because these treetops are more a hack then elegant design. I would even go one step further and will say, that FIRST we should have a branch with feature of freetops buildable fields - developed, tested, merged; and subsequently we can use this feature in the new tribe.

As for these asserts, these can be triggered only if somebody messed with LUA config files - and this is exactly what happened. LUA files that are not compatible with what AI expects.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 21:15

I replaced one of the asserts with an Exception, so it will now be triggered in release builds too and tell you which building is causing the problem and why face-wink.png

I have not merged trunk into amazons yet, because I do not want to interfere with hessenfarmer's work. @hessenfarmer, can you take care of it an fix the data to avoid the crash? Then we could create a merge request so that we will get a Windows exe.


Busy indexing nil values

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-08, 22:02

@ GunChleoc
I am working on this.

Edit: Branch is up, containing the liana cutter fix although I really didn't understand why it happened and a fix due to amzons using charcoal instead of coal.

@ Tibor
I agree I am fiddling with lua files. But this is whatz we need to do to create a new tribe. In my current state I got the error fixed and AI is running and I even did not run on the fix of the assert by GunChleoc. I just faked a hunter. So to achieve the first goal (not to crash) we don't need to change anything. So the only thing I was asking for was a small relaxation of our definitions for the hunter to get rid of the fake, but this isn't necessary.

Fot the treetop sentry I believe this Building is more an optical feature then a real usable tactical feature and even if it were such a feature current Ai would not be able to use it properly so for the Ai it is just fine to skip this building as long it doesn't crash (as it is now) Ai is able to handle terraforming properly and it is able to handle water gatherer so we don't need any change really for amazons. I am currently working on the AI hints to direcct it properly and then you could see the result. (only thing is I wouldn't train it with amzons as they miss certain aspects of the other tribes.

Edit: I already made some changes to the AI hints and the Ai performs not bad with amazons. So really I believe we could get the current AI to handle amazons as well. (at least on most maps)

Edited: 2019-09-09, 10:41

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-10, 00:51

first report: economy looks deceptvely easy, but it's made very complicated by all those trees. I got stuck with no ropes because i only had one rope weaver, when it was time to upgrade some woodcutters. so my woodcutters did not upgrade, while i already had several rare trees planters planting. and they were blocking a lot of land! rare trees are quite hard to manage, they can be a hassle if there isn't a cutter nearby. I'm slowly fiing that snag, let's see the food economy next..

regarding the AI, does the AI manage the junglemasters? because it's quite a unique situation, junglemasters are ipgraded from foresters, but they go in a different building, so it's not a matter of upgrading the building.

EDIT: on an unrelated note, i don't like the new menu system. if i click on the menu, i want to open it. i don't need it to be small at the bottom of the pagenot obstructing my view, because i wanted to actually focus on the menu

Edited: 2019-09-10, 00:56

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