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Topic: I'm surprised

Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-03, 19:14

imperium mines also need bread and beer to operate. barbarians instead can produce a lot of meat from spam of small buildings instead waste of space for large pig farms like imperium. they can instead of that build more farms, so i can produce much more food as barbarians on the same space.

Barbarians maybe need a bit more iron for upgrades, but still they can mine twice more ores after being depleted.

For me barbarian only disadvantage are very limited sources of stone, that can hold their expansion and very expensive large military structures (way too more expensive. it looks like a bug).

Edited: 2021-08-03, 19:19

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 20:56

Nazeth wrote:

Barbarians maybe need a bit more iron for upgrades, but still they can mine twice more ores after being depleted.

if they survive that long, they deserve the advantage. as other tribes can train more heros from undepleted ressources, due to barbrian costs are higher, normally they shouldn't survive that long to play that card.

For me barbarian only disadvantage are very limited sources of stone, that can hold their expansion and very expensive large military structures (way too more expensive. it looks like a bug).

they are dependent on experience as well which slows down their weapon production abilities as well as their training abilities. and no the costs for the miliotary structures are no bug they are a disadvantage which is intended to slow them down in expansion. In fact you are the first person claiming that barbarians are stronger then the other tribes.

Anyhow I was just trying to explain how things are and not argueing about your personal taste. from my point of view the message is that tribes are different on purpose.


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-03, 22:15

I'm always playing different than any other player. I like also to change styles or copy styles. Where others see disadvantages, I see advantages by experience. I do this because almost all players use the same patent every time. They are like clones. One does it faster, another makes fewer mistakes, but still plays the same. This makes them predictable, and being predictable means you can easily deduce their plans for the future.

The problem with designing a nation in rts game is that the creator cannot predict everything. One day someone will find a mechanic, that could make the best nation from the worst, so im trying as many unconventional or even crazy strategies as possible to find that one specific way. i played in more than hundred rts games over 25 years, so i saw many swaps like that. Each game have better and worse nations depend on the bonusses, units ect, but they are things that will never change.

Many times I have encountered considerable disproportions between factions, but that specific game is quite a unique phenomenon. The differences are so huge that when i choosing a faction for a specific map, conditions and teams, I would have absolutely no doubts about choosing one of them. I can delete some of them from the list at begin, because they are waste of time to master them by being too unique, overcomplicated, unpredictable or specialised. In my opinion the only viable nations atm are Atlanteans with solid rush ability and Barbarians for long run capabilities. Imperium is weaker at rush, require more space and it's unviable at long run. Frisians multiple radius buildings require to much calculations and space organisation, that are waste of time. Amazons too. Simplify and speed ​​in making decisions or calculations are also important. Especially in S1-S4 and Widelands, where space organisation is one of the main factor of success.


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tothxa
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Joined: 2021-03-24, 12:44
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 23:05

Nazeth wrote:

The differences are so huge that when i choosing a faction for a specific map, conditions and teams, I would have absolutely no doubts about choosing one of them. I can delete some of them from the list at begin, because they are waste of time to master them by being too unique, overcomplicated, unpredictable or specialised. In my opinion the only viable nations atm are Atlanteans with solid rush ability and Barbarians for long run capabilities. Imperium is weaker at rush, require more space and it's unviable at long run. Frisians multiple radius buildings require to much calculations and space organisation, that are waste of time. Amazons too.

You could take it as a challenge to play the tribes you think are weaker, or to learn and master the ones you think are complicated.

There's a lot of talk on these forums about balancing the tribes, but if the imbalances are well understood and documented, then they can even be useful as a handicap system.


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-04, 06:13

Frisians for example need a lot of space to maintain foresters, berry planation's, clay pits and farms. that mean you need a lot of space to maintain it all. Taking a space consume time and resources to build military buildings. that mean they require much more effort for similar profits to build a base economy than other factions. if you have time to waste a time at the begin of the game, then overtime you will be weaker than nations that require less space to reach the same goal. Also not many maps allow you to build such big empire by very limited space. If average game require 60-120 minutes to finish it, the you should really care about your actions and reduce waste of time and space to minimum.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2021-08-04, 08:58

Nazeth wrote:

Frisians for example need a lot of space to maintain foresters, berry planation's, clay pits and farms. that mean you need a lot of space to maintain it all. Taking a space consume time and resources to build military buildings. that mean they require much more effort for similar profits to build a base economy than other factions.

correct. this is intended.

if you have time to waste a time at the begin of the game, then overtime you will be weaker than nations that require less space to reach the same goal.

that depends on the time until you get in contact with the enemy. Frisians are meant to be played on big maps. Anyhow if you wan't a 100% fair match (in multiplayer) choose a fully balanced map and the same tribe for each player) else see it as an intended challenge.

Also not many maps allow you to build such big empire by very limited space.

I disagree we have plenty of big maps shipped, downloadble from the website and in addons.

If average game require 60-120 minutes to finish it

My average games last m uch longer. E.g campaign games last longer.

the you should really care about your actions and reduce waste of time and space to minimum.

Yes but this applies to all factions.

I think your misconception is that you think everybody likes top play the game in exactly the same way you do. but there are many more. If you don't like specifiec tribes just don't use them, others like to play them


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