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Topic: I'm surprised

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2021-08-01, 16:00

Nazeth wrote:

If 2 mines of the same type share their mining area, then after being depleted they have lower chance to get extra ore?

No the chance to find something when depleted is the same.


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-02, 03:53

so if i know, that source will be quickly depleted, then i can spam mines around and don't care about their radius?

Oh and what is the biggest conquer range from military buildings? i need that info for my map.

Edited: 2021-08-02, 03:55

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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
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Posted at: 2021-08-02, 09:03

Nazeth wrote:

For me if i've see that 4 players choose the same faction on tournament and many times other players repeat, that one faction is better on multiplayer, than other ones without any alternatives and with solid arguments, then balance is broken and it require quick fixes.

It can't be like other factions "just exists" to increase amount of possible chooses for fun face-grin.png

Yes (+1)

After few games as Barbarians i preferred them for their ore gathering speed on long time games and quite controllable material spending, but first contact with enemies is very painful.

In multiplayer its not only painful, there is no first contact you can ever survive especially vs Atlanteans

Atlantians have definitely too cheap buildings, that allow me to expand and growth very fast. First contact with enemy is often ended with Blitzkrieg before they can prepare defence lines, what give me huge advantage in early phase. If i will keep that advantage to take next towers, then beating the AI is just a matter of time. It's like punching a kid, that hasn't time to reinforce towers with fresh recruits, so i don't need to waste time on preparations and resources to break enemy fortified lines, because i can just outnumber enemy in first battle and then keep that quantity advantage over time.

Thats why i never played anything else than Atlantean in a competitive game where i can choose my tribe

The principle you describe happens often, with the 7 soldiers tower combined with the Bergfried super sight range you just expand and attack.

The best results i had, when i can quickly outnumber enemies during first contact and Atlanteans are definitely the best in it, so i understand why they are preferable choice. Other factions are unique and that's cool, but they can't stay in the shadow of one faction.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-08-02, 10:05

Nazeth wrote:

so if i know, that source will be quickly depleted, then i can spam mines around and don't care about their radius?

Just to be precise, the amount of a ressource is given in the map file. Each amount of a ressource gives exactly one ware if you manage to extract them all. (e.g. Amazonians can't mine 100% of the gold available). If you build more mines per area the ressources will deplete quicker but your production rate is bigger (on the cost of food and the construction material of course)

Oh and what is the biggest conquer range from military buildings? i need that info for my map.

currently the biggest radius a (big) building can conquer is 12. If you are interested in the values of all buildings you might have a look into the init.lua files of each building. They are to be found in your data directory at data/tribes/buildings


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Nazeth
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-03, 08:31

Last time im thinking about one thing. I want to for example prioritize my soldier production like:

  • High priority for gold armours and weapons to make a heroes
  • Medium priority for iron armours and weapons to make veterans
  • low priority to make unlimited amount of fresh recruits.

There is possibility to manipulate a priority bars or something else to set that priorities with weapon smiths and armour smiths?

Edited: 2021-08-03, 08:38

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 09:30

Nazeth wrote:

Last time im thinking about one thing. I want to for example prioritize my soldier production like:

  • High priority for gold armours and weapons to make a heroes
  • Medium priority for iron armours and weapons to make veterans
  • low priority to make unlimited amount of fresh recruits.

There is possibility to manipulate a priority bars or something else to set that priorities with weapon smiths and armour smiths?

No there is no such feature. This is a settlers feature I believe. Our economy production is controlled by the demand of a ware. the demand is controlled by the economy settings (reachable at each flagconomy menu with a rightclick) and the demand of each consumer. So to prioritize a special ware you might use a combination of giving it higher target amount in the eco settings reduce the input in e.g. a trainingsite to 1 or zero.

for the fast creation of heroes it is essential imho to let them train the whole cycle in one go as otherwise the walking to and from the trainingsites takes ages. for this it is recomendable to stop the trainingsite until it is fully equipped.

one last thing there is no such concept of veterans and heroes like in settlers in our game. We only have for categories of abilities where the soldiers potentially can be trained (not every tribe trains in every category). these categories are attack, defense, evade and health.

the fighting mechanism per one blow is as follows: first the actual attack value is determined randomly between the min and max attack value of the current traininglevel in attack, then it is evaluated if the opponent evades (probability is 100% minus actual evade value of the traininglevel), if the blow will hit we multiply the attack value with (100% - defense value of the traininglevel) and finally we substract this value from the opponents health points. if the opponent still is alive it is now his turn until one of the soldiers dies.

Edited: 2021-08-03, 09:30

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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 15:39

well. for me recruit is a base soldier, veterans are equipped with iron upgrades, heroes are equipped with gold equipment. it helps me to understand mechanic by find a similar language to other rts games (not only settlers).

And yee. Imperium is another abandoned faction by me. Mines depleting too fast on most of the maps and that 5% chance to mine something is huge pain in my ass. even powerful economy with 30 depleted mines and constant food supplies can't even maintain constant equipment production for double weapon and armour smiths.

Edited: 2021-08-03, 15:49

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 17:24

Nazeth wrote:

well. for me recruit is a base soldier, veterans are equipped with iron upgrades, heroes are equipped with gold equipment. it helps me to understand mechanic by find a similar language to other rts games (not only settlers).

well, I understand the attempt. however trying to understand a particular mechanics by not suitable analogies might lead to misconceptions. e.g. most tribes train some steps without even using metals just using food.

And yee. Imperium is another abandoned faction by me. Mines depleting too fast on most of the maps and that 5% chance to mine something is huge pain in my ass. even powerful economy with 30 depleted mines and constant food supplies can't even maintain constant equipment production for double weapon and armour smiths.

ressources are depleting at exakt the same point as for all other tribes. each tribe except amazons can mine exact the same amount of minerals on every map. so there is no difference in the mining between the tribes except the radius of a mine. atlantean mines have a big radius (4) and do not need to be enhanced but they are more expensive (in terms of buildcost and operating cost) then empire or barbarian mines with a radius of 2. so yes mines are depleting faster but ressources don't


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-03, 18:47

ressources are depleting at exakt the same point as for all other tribes. each tribe except amazons can mine exact the same amount of minerals on every map. so there is no difference in the mining between the tribes except the radius of a mine. atlantean mines have a big radius (4) and do not need to be enhanced but they are more expensive (in terms of buildcost and operating cost) then empire or barbarian mines with a radius of 2. so yes mines are depleting faster but resources don't.

problem is after being depleted. each mine can be depleted really fast and after that imperium have the biggest troubles. they can mine only half of minerals for the same amount of mines and similar amount of food. so if they can be viable at the start of the game, then they are going to be completely garbage in long term games, because they will be outnumbered by other factions with the same amount of depleted mines. that mean their mines really should be fixed to equal standards like other factions.

many maps offer the same amount of mineable resources per faction, that can be depleted in less than 60-90 min. that mean after that time no one care that mine has X radius or cost Y resources. you want as many mines with as bigger extra ore chance as possible. Because maps mostly haven't any contested resources (a sources between players. its a prize for quick expansion), then imperium aren't viable in long terms games, but only for rush until their mines aren't depleted. I don't think they can even rush, because their economy is too depend on quite rare marble on early-mid game. These contradicting features are the result of a mistake in the design of the fraction. You need to rush and expand for more resources in the future than enemy, but you can't do it by low marble gathering and lack of contested sources.

Edited: 2021-08-03, 19:11

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-08-03, 19:08

well, each tribe has its strengths and weaknesses. Barbarians and Frisians have the 10% chance in their deepest mines, while atlanteans and empire only have 5%. On the other hand Barbaians need much more Iron then atlanteans and frisians need to get recycling going otherwise they will need even more.

Against whom did you play to get outnumbered. I doubt it could have been the AI as the AI can't operate on empty mines? A replay would be interesting to see.
As barbarians deepest mines need a lot of wheat (for bread and beer) to gain the advantage, one might try to operate small empire mines rather then deep ones. (you don't need to build the mines on a previous iron spot to get the 5% chance any mountain will do).

However If you don't want to play empire you are free to do so.

I am strongly against fixing just one single aspect of a tribe to be equal with other tribes. As by this we would end up with all tribes being totally equal in the end which is not the goal. For completely fair Multiplayer both opponents can choose the same tribe btw

Edited: 2021-08-03, 19:11

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