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Topic: widelands tournament 2019: subscriptions started

king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-07-23, 01:04

WorldSavior wrote:

Or maybe the game is less about luck than we think: One can try to let the opposite heroes fight with some rookies before they fight the heroes, so it might be more about skill...

one can try, but there is no guarantee that it will work. and as you showed, you can still force a wounded soldier to retreat by dismantling/upgrading the military building. you lose some building resources, but they are worth less than military ones.

don't get me wrong. i'm not saying the game is luck-based. if there are two strong players who have come out very close from early game, and they clash by the time they can field the first hero, and they both make the first hero at the same time while also having similar level of development, and they decide to fight there, and the two heroes fight each other... ok, then it becomes a matter of luck. but for luck to matter it requires that both players are that close for all the game.

luck was an important factor in two of our games because we both played so well and were so close that a single hero fight going one way or the other could change the game. in those matches where i did not manage to keep up with you early on - or in all those matches when one of the player comes out with a clearly better economy - luck is not a factor.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-07-23, 07:43

WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Trimard an me agrred to play today at 19:30 CEST

Crazy match! face-smile.png

Yes I beleive that could be another example for how not to do it. Especially I learned not to surrender to early. We will finish this tonight 2100 CEST.

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Yes, the match was very spectacular. But there is something what bothers me: Luck was a very important aspect. When it looked already like a safe win for me, you had a lot of luck, five of my heroes died in that game phase while only one of yours did so. This luck outweights the one which I had in the other hero-fights. So I think that I prefer matches where the law of large numbers prevents that.

Mmh I believe there are tribes where fighting them is more luck based in single fights than fighting others. Especially fighting Atlanteans with a high evade rate depends heavily on the random function. For other tribes it matters whether they hit at max power or at min power. So while balanced over 10000 fights the results in 5 encounters might seem to be based on luck ( the results of einsteins table still differ by around 3-4 % if only based on 1000 fights and still by around 1 % if based on 10000). And in your match in the 5 Heroes lost situation this was possible but very unlikely to happen.
On the other hand I like that because it makes widelands more thrilling and less foreseeable. ( more like football where a weak team may win and less like Basketball where the best team always wins)

Yes, I've been considering it, and I came to the conclusion that it's a problem with the game design.

the combat mechanics support training a few powerful soldiers instead of many weak ones. changing that would make training pointless, so we won't want to change much there.

but then it means that in fast contact maps, both sides will have a small number of heroes facing off.

Yes but if we buff the defender a bit one might think twice to set the first hit. I usually tend to attack to early and need some luck in such turns to gain an advantage.

Edited: 2019-07-23, 07:45
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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-07-23, 22:14

ok Trimard and I finished our "crazy" match. It almost took another turn again but I finally destroyed his HQ at 3:52 while being nearly equal on trees. Thanks for a very good match trimard. I learned a lot in this one.

Edit: we both used Atlanteans

Edited: 2019-07-23, 22:21
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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-07-24, 20:55

I just won against watchcat, we both played Empire.

Replay: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1832981/comments/28

Thanks for the game!

@King: I have updated the Round 4 table and added the tribes and the result to the full table.

Edited: 2019-07-24, 21:00

Busy indexing nil values

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watchcat
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Posted at: 2019-07-24, 21:08

Yep, GunChleoc beat me right and fair. Some really, really interesting logistic mistakes and useless remedies on my side. Beautiful view to the Fjord, though. face-smile.png


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-07-25, 19:51

Quite interesting: Watchcat and trimard both lost their HQs almost at the same time (around 3:50), only few minutes before the match ends anyway...


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-07-25, 22:52

WorldSavior wrote:

Quite interesting: Watchcat and trimard both lost their HQs almost at the same time (around 3:50), only few minutes before the match ends anyway...

differenc was that trimards tree population was nearly equal to mine and so it was a safeguard to take the HQ while Gunchleoc was leading big on the trees anyway


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-07-26, 00:26

when i picked the map and the win condition, i was hoping that fjords is easy enough to defend that some game might be stalled and actually be decided by tree gnome. no such luck


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-07-26, 13:03

king_of_nowhere wrote:

when i picked the map and the win condition, i was hoping that fjords is easy enough to defend that some game might be stalled and actually be decided by tree gnome.

How? You can build a lot of towers on that map. So even if one blocks one side with a fortress, the fortress can be easily attacked from the other side. Am I overlooking something?


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-07-26, 14:55

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

when i picked the map and the win condition, i was hoping that fjords is easy enough to defend that some game might be stalled and actually be decided by tree gnome.

How? You can build a lot of towers on that map. So even if one blocks one side with a fortress, the fortress can be easily attacked from the other side. Am I overlooking something?

well, just thinking that two fortresses on both sides mean you have to kill both to pass. and you can concentrate all your power in a narrow area and stop the opponent from conquering until he takes that area. not huge defensive advantage - nothing like attacking a fortress from small buildings on a narrow pass - but still a bit of help to defence. certainly easier than defending a large border.


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