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Topic: questions about the economy

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-05-27, 20:56

mxb2001 wrote:

Having that exact problem in my current game. Bakery at 5%- because of water shortage even though a well is adjacent. I was wondering what affects well production, sometimes they are not 100%. Am building a second well for bakery to see if that floods the bakery hehe... It even has it's own 2 farms. Wow, do you normally need 2 wells and farms for one bakery?

wells are working at 100% if there is some water left in their working radius. But as this radius is very small they hav quickly used up all the water. After that they work at a 66% chance I think.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-05-27, 21:13

mxb2001 wrote:

Having that exact problem in my current game. Bakery at 5%- because of water shortage even though a well is adjacent. I was wondering what affects well production, sometimes they are not 100%. Am building a second well for bakery to see if that floods the bakery hehe... It even has it's own 2 farms. Wow, do you normally need 2 wells and farms for one bakery?

Which tribe?

hessenfarmer wrote:

mxb2001 wrote:

Having that exact problem in my current game. Bakery at 5%- because of water shortage even though a well is adjacent. I was wondering what affects well production, sometimes they are not 100%. Am building a second well for bakery to see if that floods the bakery hehe... It even has it's own 2 farms. Wow, do you normally need 2 wells and farms for one bakery?

wells are working at 100% if there is some water left in their working radius. But as this radius is very small they hav quickly used up all the water. After that they work at a 66% chance I think.

Confirmed


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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mxb2001
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Joined: 2019-05-20, 18:49
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 01:19

Barbs as per BoeseKaiser. Aha, so water also runs out? Ouch. So it does matter how many water hexes (of the 7 possible in the work radius) there are for a well.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 02:49

mxb2001 wrote:

Barbs as per BoeseKaiser.

A barbarian bakery needs three exhausted wells and 4.5 farms.

Aha, so water also runs out?

Yes, but it doesn't matter that much because the exhausted well will still run at 65% efficiency.

Ouch. So it does matter how many water hexes (of the 7 possible in the work radius) there are for a well.

I think the bigger problem is that geologists search only for water when the flag is not on the mountain, even if the flag is close to it. That is even more confusing for new players. Searching for water is not really necessary...

Edited: 2019-05-31, 14:44

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 13:48

yes, i always ignored searching for waters and just made wells wherever i had a spare space.

and having a well nearby does't necessarily help if there isn't enough water in the economy. you need several wells. worldsavior knows better the mathematics


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Tribal-Chief
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-05-28, 13:53

Some maps do have restricted water resources so you are better off searching for water then. I also think 60% efficiency for 'empty' wells is way to high, they should be more like mines 10% max if empty, which would mean being sure there is water before wasting resources.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 14:07

Tribal-Chief wrote:

Some maps do have restricted water resources so you are better off searching for water then. I also think 60% efficiency for 'empty' wells is way to high, they should be more like mines 10% max if empty, which would mean being sure there is water before wasting resources.

At least all terrains which allow water as a resource have the default amount (which is terrain dependent but will be 4 or slightly more as far as I can remember). Currently water is the basis for empire infinite food resource as well as for the frisian infinite food resource. I believe the 60 % was set as a quick hack to not disadvantage the empire too much. However taking this into account there would be more changes necessary then just changing the efficiency of the well. We need to have at least:
- a proper setting for water ressources
- a rework of all old maps or higher default ressources for them
- resource indicators showing the amount of water as well instead of only showing presence
- a proper working radius of the mine
- some calculations about the max water contained and a proper balancing correction for empire and frisians, which will then be map dependent.

So as I am not against these changes this is pretty much work to do.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 15:39

Reducing water doesn't improve the game, it makes it worse. It could be good to remove the resource water completely and let wells always run at 100%.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 15:55

WorldSavior wrote:

Reducing water doesn't improve the game, it makes it worse. It could be good to remove the resource water completely and let wells always run at 100%.

that would be no good either imo, cause in this setup we could completely skip the wells (i.e. bakeries and breweries have their own wells included.)
I really would like to have a meaningful resource water which is not very liomited per map but not available everywhere (i.e. less water on desert soil more on Greenland, nearly infinite near mountains). Additionally we could have a waterworks like in settlers 4 to use rivers as water sources. these sites could even be a special kind of bridge with a dual use.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-05-28, 16:24

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Reducing water doesn't improve the game, it makes it worse. It could be good to remove the resource water completely and let wells always run at 100%.

that would be no good either imo, cause in this setup we could completely skip the wells (i.e. bakeries and breweries have their own wells included.)

Nah, that's not true, you'd still have to build enough wells - exactly like in the current situation.

I really would like to have a meaningful resource water which is not very liomited per map but not available everywhere (i.e. less water on desert soil more on Greenland, nearly infinite near mountains). Additionally we could have a waterworks like in settlers 4 to use rivers as water sources. these sites could even be a special kind of bridge with a dual use.

I think there are better changes possible than this, changing the water resource might be a waste of effort.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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