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Topic: questions about the economy

BoeseKaiser
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Joined: 2019-02-21, 11:03
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-05-25, 14:17

Hi everyone,

I've played some 30-ish games( mostly with barbarians), and I got a couple of questions :

  • the bakery seems to have low priority in getting ressources compared to brewery. When I don't have enough farms, my brewerys works 100% and my bakeries less, according to the avilable wheat (I'm pretty sure water as well even though I didn't double checked). Is this intended?

  • is there an easy approximation of the ware distribution priority that I can get without looking at the code? I mean a formula depending on distance/availabilitytime waiting/other factors that would tell me approximately which ware goes where?

  • what is the concrete effect on selecting "high/low priority" for ressources on the construction site/prduction buildings? it doesn't seem to be an absolute thing (you get nothing on low riority as long as there are other things to do), is is just a probability of geting a ware lowered/increased (if yes how much)? something else?

  • same question for the warehouses (preferably store here/normal policy/remove from here) : it seems to be a quite strong order, when I tried to used it I had the feeling it screwed up my economy a bit. how does this work? How do you use it?

  • the mines when empty have a 5% chance of finding ore. Do they also consume 5% of the food or still 100% ?

  • when the weapon production is not fast enough, the training camp decides to remove soldiers that didn't complete training. What factors have what strength in this decision (other soldier waiting for training, time idle, ...)?

  • I've read there are some quite good players out there, are there replays avilable somewhere that I could see? and (that might belong to "game suggestions") I didn't seem to be able to speed up while watching my replays (which makes sense with what I read about how they work), is there such a feature that I didn't see (changing speed and/or watching some stats during the replay)?

Well, That's all I think of now, but that is a good start :p Thanks


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2019-05-25, 16:33

BoeseKaiser wrote:

  • the bakery seems to have low priority in getting ressources compared to brewery. When I don't have enough farms, my brewerys works 100% and my bakeries less, according to the avilable wheat (I'm pretty sure water as well even though I didn't double checked). Is this intended?

The barbarian bakery can only start working when it has 3 of each ware in store (it´ll then produce 2 bread). If the supply is slow, the gaps between producing are therefore very long. The brewery needs only one of each so it can work whenever it gets supplied.
So, both are supplied with equal priority, but the bakery has longer gaps and less return per input.

  • is there an easy approximation of the ware distribution priority that I can get without looking at the code? I mean a formula depending on distance/availabilitytime waiting/other factors that would tell me approximately which ware goes where?

  • what is the concrete effect on selecting "high/low priority" for ressources on the construction site/prduction buildings? it doesn't seem to be an absolute thing (you get nothing on low riority as long as there are other things to do), is is just a probability of geting a ware lowered/increased (if yes how much)? something else?

The distribution is decided mainly by the time since a building was last supplied. Low/High priority affect this by the factor 2.

Wares are preferably sent to a nearby destination. As far as I know (not 100% sure), high priority will also accept wares from further away. If this is correct, a high-prioritised building may actually be supplied slower because wares have to be brought from far away, whereas low-prioritised sites will get only nearby produced wares.

  • the mines when empty have a 5% chance of finding ore. Do they also consume 5% of the food or still 100% ?

They consume 100% food, and you will get something for your investments only on 5% of the working cycles face-wink.png

  • when the weapon production is not fast enough, the training camp decides to remove soldiers that didn't complete training. What factors have what strength in this decision (other soldier waiting for training, time idle, ...)?

The number of times a trainer tried to train a specific soldier and failed due to lack of equipment or food. The trainer´s patience is specific to the training building type.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-05-25, 18:17

BoeseKaiser wrote:

  • I've read there are some quite good players out there, are there replays avilable somewhere that I could see? and (that might belong to "game suggestions") I didn't seem to be able to speed up while watching my replays (which makes sense with what I read about how they work), is there such a feature that I didn't see (changing speed and/or watching some stats during the replay)?

i think all old replays are incompatible with the current version by now.

however, a new tournament is going to start soon. subscriptions will be open later this evening


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BoeseKaiser
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Joined: 2019-02-21, 11:03
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-05-25, 20:03

Thanx a lot, that is really helpfull.

Nordfriese wrote:

Wares are preferably sent to a nearby destination. As far as I know (not 100% sure), high priority will also accept wares from further away. If this is correct, a high-prioritised building may actually be supplied slower because wares have to be brought from far away, whereas low-prioritised sites will get only nearby produced wares.

do you know if there is a maximum distance that a ware can travel? I'm playing on a huge map at the time, and some of my production is quite far away.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-05-25, 20:40

do you know if there is a maximum distance that a ware can travel?

There isn´t one. This has the advantage that when there is a supply for a request, the request is certain to be fulfilled;

but it has the disadvantage that wares will be sent on unreasonably long journeys during shortages – and if a new ware becomes available close to the destination when a far-away ware is already being transported there, they will not be swapped. In which case it can happen that low-priority buildings are supplied better than highly prioritised sites.

The only solution is to always have some wares in store everywhere.

Edited: 2019-05-25, 20:41
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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-05-25, 20:55

BoeseKaiser wrote:

  • I've read there are some quite good players out there, are there replays avilable somewhere that I could see?

Yes, if you have build19 somewhere available, you could watch some of these:

http://www.widelands.org/~sirver/wl/170906_tournament_2017_replays/

http://www.widelands.org/~sirver/wl/161121_tournament_2016_replays/

http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/Tournament2018/

and (that might belong to "game suggestions") I didn't seem to be able to speed up while watching my replays (which makes sense with what I read about how they work), is there such a feature that I didn't see (changing speed and/or watching some stats during the replay)?

Yes, just use page up and page down like in normal games. You can also see some stats in the replay, but not all.

Thanks

You're welcome

Nordfriese wrote:

Wares are preferably sent to a nearby destination.

That's surprising me. Is there any code which shows this en detail?

king_of_nowhere wrote:

i think all old replays are incompatible with the current version by now.

Yes, they are face-sad.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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mxb2001
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Joined: 2019-05-20, 18:49
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-05-25, 21:20

Haha Boese seems you and I are at the very same stage of learning this game.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-05-26, 12:45

Yes, replays are usually only compatible with the exact same version of Widelands that they were created with. Trying to implement some form of compatibility here would be an unmaintainable nightmare, so we're not doing it. We do our best not to break savegame compatibility, but sometimes we have to break that too as new features become incompatible. Old maps can always be loaded though.


Busy indexing nil values

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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2019-05-26, 20:39

Nordfriese wrote:

BoeseKaiser wrote:

  • the bakery seems to have low priority in getting ressources compared to brewery. When I don't have enough farms, my brewerys works 100% and my bakeries less, according to the avilable wheat (I'm pretty sure water as well even though I didn't double checked). Is this intended?

The barbarian bakery can only start working when it has 3 of each ware in store (it´ll then produce 2 bread). If the supply is slow, the gaps between producing are therefore very long. The brewery needs only one of each so it can work whenever it gets supplied.
So, both are supplied with equal priority, but the bakery has longer gaps and less return per input.

Even if the requirements were equal, the percentages can differ because of output ware demand: If the economy has a shortage of one ware (like bread), but plenty of supply of something else (like beer), then the breweries work only now and then bakeries at full speed. Now, if the supply of common input ware (wheat) is limited, beweries still show 100% (they can more or less always work when needed) while bakeries show worse performance: They attempt to work more often, and limited shortage of input wares has higher odds of affecting the site.


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mxb2001
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Joined: 2019-05-20, 18:49
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2019-05-27, 20:42

Having that exact problem in my current game. Bakery at 5%- because of water shortage even though a well is adjacent. I was wondering what affects well production, sometimes they are not 100%. Am building a second well for bakery to see if that floods the bakery hehe... It even has it's own 2 farms. Wow, do you normally need 2 wells and farms for one bakery?


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