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Topic: new tribe: amazons

king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 13:45

WorldSavior wrote:

I think that the tree would still need a flag. And if the building doesn't need a small building under the tree, the building could be overpowered: Amazons could expand on terrains where other tribes could not expand at all. So what about giving the building a very tiny conquer radius which makes expansion impossible?

I didn't think of that. sure, they'd still need the flag south-east of the tree, but they could build military sites and expand the border where the forest is too dense for other tribes to expand.

that doesn't normaally present a problem, but it may skew some scenarios where you are supposed to chop first and expand later. but are there such scenarios? normally, when one wants to stop expansion, one fiddles with terrain height oor composition to make building impossible (such limitations should still be in effect). if one wants to delay expansion, one puts a wall of stone. I can't think of any map where there is a forest too dense to pass.

treetop sentries would also mean a tree wall would be less effective against amazonians, but what the hell, it's not very effective against a human in the first place. it also makes sense that trying to stop amazonians with trees won't work well face-tongue.png

so, if there are strong balance concerns, the idea should be scrapped. if the balance problems aren't huge, then it may be tried.

graphically, i envisioned a platform being built on top of the tree. it would have low conque radius (5 or 4) but decent vision (10 or 12)

About foresters: Couldn't there be a junglemaster hut (small building) and a junglemaster mountain hut (mine building) at the same time?

it could - and we could pretend it's the same by giving it the same name and graphics - but then it could be built also on non-forested mountains.

Edited: 2019-08-18, 13:50

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:10

I worked on detailed blueprints for the various buildings that could be used for the first tests. I made that the rare trees woodcutter would be upgraded from the regular woodcutter.

## buildings

small

  • woodcutter hut: just your regular woodcuter. can be upgraded to rare trees woodcutter build cost: 4 wood return on dismantle: 2 wood radius: +1 compared to other tribes working cycle: like barbarian woodcutter, but working animation on a tree takes twice as much (stone tools are worse). will ignore rare trees worker: woodcutter (requires axe). the worker gains experience to become a master woodcutter (15 xp needed)

  • junglemaster hut: a forester, but more efficient: plants trees already at the second stage of growth (pole) and is a bit faster. build cost: 3 wood 1 rope return on dismantle: 2 wood radius: +1 compared to other tribes working cycle: compared to barbarian ranger, it has half the sleep time (8000 instead of 16000). (won't work twice as fast, as most of the time is spent moving around). plants trees at growth level 2 worker: junglemaster (requires showel)

  • liana cutter hut: this guy cuts lianas to be used as ropes and tie buildings. he just get them from trees, nothing fancy: he goes to a tree, he works and gets a liana, without harming the tree. can only get lianas from old trees, no other special requirements: build cost: 5 wood return on dismantle: 3 wood radius: 6 working cycle: 30 seconds idle, walks to a tree, 5 seconds of animation. worker: liana cutter (requires machete)

  • stonecutter hut: just a regular stonecutter, but it works more slowly because he lacks iron tools build cost: 4 wood return on dismantle: 2 wood working cycle: same as barbarian stonecutter, but spend twice as much time on animation. worker: stonecutter (requires pick)

  • water gatherer hut: equivalent of well, but it requires water nearby build cost: 3 wood, 1 stone, 1 rubber return on dismantle: 2 wood radius: 8 working cycle: goes to a nearby corner adjacent to water and gets a bucketful. carries two buckets, so it makes 2 water with one working cycle. as it spends time moving, it is roughly as efficient as other tribes wells. worker: carrier (no requirements)

  • rare trees woodcutter: chops ironwood, balsa, rubber. will chop other trees only if special trees are not available. upgraded from woodcutter upgrade cost: 1 wood, 1 ropes, 1 stone return on dismantle: 3 wood, 1 rope worker: master woodcutter (promoted from woodcutter) for everything else, it works like a woodcutter.

  • hunter-gatherer hut: the hunter-gatherer will grab a fish or hunt an animal, at alternate times. it's a hunter and fisher together. same radius of other tribes hunters. build cost: 3 wood, 1 ropes return on dismantle: 1 wood, 1 rope working cycle: like barbarian hunter, but 5 seconds lower sleep time worker: hunter-gatherer (requires spear)

  • wilderness keeper tent: the wilderness keeper will release a new animal in the wild or a new fish into water, at alternate times. Will only release a new animal on a node with a mature tree. build cost: 1 wood, 2 ropes return on dismantle: 1 rope working cycle: like barbarian gamekeeper worker: wilderness keeper (no requirements)

  • patrol post: basic military site build cost: 1 wood 1 stone 1 rope return on dismantle: 1 stone garrison: 2 conquer range: 6 vision range: same as barbarian sentry

  • treetop sentry: unique military site that can only be built on top of an existing tree. would require special coding to make it work. if that coding is too complex, the building idea will be scrapped. restrictions on building based on terrain height and composition still applies. build cost: 1 wood 1 rope return on dismantle: 1 rope garrison: 1 conquer range: 5 vision range: 2 more than a barbarian sentry healing: 50

Edited: 2019-08-18, 15:11

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:12

medium

  • ropeweaver booth: turns 2 lianas into one rope build cost: 5 wood, 2 stone, 1 rope, 1 rubber return on dismantle: 3 wood, 1 stone working cycle: as empire stonemason worker: rope weaver (no requirements)

  • charcoal burner: makes charcoal out of 6 wood build cost: 2 wood, 1 ironwood, 4 stone return on dismantle: 3 wood working cycle: like most charcoal burners worker: charcoal burner (no requirements)

  • rare tree plantation: plants balsa trees, rubber trees, and ironwood trees. it works like a forester, except those trees grow equally well in any soil that's conductive to trees at all. such trees are cut by rare trees woodcutters, and woodcutters of other tribes will just get a log out of them. amazonian regular woodcutters won't touch those trees. build cost: 6 wood, 3 ropes, 3 stones return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 rope 2 stone working cycle: like a forester, it plants balsa, rubber and ironwood trees (those start as saplings). It plants one of each as long as the economy is requiring all the wares. it will skip a tree if the economy is not requiring that specific tree. radius: 6 worker: rare tree planter (requires showel)

  • food preserver: makes a ration out of cassava bread, meat/fish, and charcoal (I'm thinking some kind of fire-dried food, sort of like pemmican in the preparation) 2 bread, 2 meat/fish, 1 charcoal make 2 rations build cost: 2 wood, 3 stone, 2 rope, 1 rubber return on dismantle: 1 wood 2 stone 1 rope working cycle: like an imperial tavern worker: cook (requires kitchen utensils)

  • cassava root cooker: makes cassava bread 1 cassava root, 2 water make 1 bread build cost: 2 wood, 4 stone, 2 rope return on dismantle: 1 wood 2 stone 1 rope working cycle: like a barbarian or imperial bakery worker: cook (requires kitchen utensils)

  • stonecarver: carves stone into tools and weapons. Makes tools out of stone, wood and/or ropes. Makes weapons out of ironwood and stone. basically it's both toolsmith and weaponsmith at once. build cost: 2 ironwood 2 balsa 2 rubber 2 stone return on dismantle: 1 ironwood 1 balsa 1 rubber 1 stone working cycle: cycles between weapons and tools. speed like other weapon smiths. worker: stonecarver (requires hammer and chisel)

  • dressmaker: makes all kinds of armors from ironwood, rubber, balsa, and gold. build cost: 3 wood, 3 rubber, 3 balsa, 1 rope return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 rubber 1 balsa working cycle: like most armor smiths worker: dressmaker (requires pins)

  • furnace: smelts gold dust and charcoal into gold 1 gold dust, 1 charcoal make 1 gold build cost: 2 ironwood, 5 stone return on dismantle: 1 ironwood 3 stone working cycle: like a smelting works, but 10 seconds slower worker: gold smelter (no requirements) (I envision this guy would melt gold dust over a mold and just let it cool down; i don't know what kind of stone tools he may use)

  • youth gathering: where new warriors are recruited (it's a barracks with another name) build cost: 3 wood 5 rubber 2 ropes return on dismantle: 2 wood 2 rubber 1 rope working cycle: like barracks worker: trainer

  • chocolate brewery (i'm not fond of the name but can't come up with anything better, be free to change it) 1 chocolate beans 2 water make 1 chocolate build cost: 2 wood 2 rubber 1 balsa 1 stone return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 stone working cycle: like an empire brewery worker: cook (requires kitchen utensils)

  • warrior's gathering: soldiers learn the attack promotions here build cost: 3 wood 3 ironwood 5 rubber 2 rope 3 stone 2 balsa return on dismantle: 1 wood 1 ironwood 3 rubber 1 rope 2 stone 1 balsa working cycle: like barbarian battle arena, but teaches attack instead of evade worker: trainer

  • gardening center: terraforms land into more fertile land. with one charcoal and one fish, it turns a triangle into a different, more fertile triangle according to a fixed scheme. this is inspired from the "terra preta". and since amazonians have no use for mountains, let them turn them to forested mountains and use them to grow more trees. does not turn unbuildable land into buildable land. cannot improve land it already improved once. would require extra coding, can be scrapper if too complex. build cost: 4 wood 2 ropes 2 stone return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 rope 1 stone working cycle: the worker moves to a corner, digs, and turns one triangle into a more fertile one. speed similar to a forester. range: 10 worker: junglemaster (requires showel)

  • warehouse: just a normal warehouse build cost: 5 wood 3 balsa 1 rubber 3 rope return on dismantle: 3 wood 2 balsa 1 rope

  • shipyard makes a boat with 5 wood, 5 balsa, 3 rubber, 3 rope. boats are like big canoas build cost: 2 wood 2 balsa 3 rubber 2 ropes return on dismantle: 1 wood 1 balsa 1 rubber 1 rope working cycle: as a shipyard. worker: shipwright (requires hammer)

  • tower: military site. upgrades to observation tower build cost: 2 wood, 2 ironwood, 2 stone, 2 rope return on dismantle: 1 wood, 1 ironwood, 1 stone, 1 rope garrison: 4 conquer range: 8 vision range: 16 healing: 110

  • observation tower: military site. upgraded from tower upgrade cost: 1 ironwood 2 balsa 1 rope return on dismantle: 1 wood, 2 ironwood, balsa, 1 stone, 1 rope garrison: 5 conquer range: 8 vision range: 19 healing: 150

  • warriors dwelling: military site build cost: 2 ironwood, 3 stone return on dismantle: 1 ironwood 2 stone garrison: 5 conquer range: 8 vision range: 11 healing: 150


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:13

large

  • tapirs farm: makes tapirs, which amazonians use as secondary carrier 1 cassava root 1 water make 1 tapir build cost: 5 wood 2 rope return on dismantle: 3 wood 1 rope working cycle: like other second carrier breeders worker: tapirs breeder (no requirements)

  • port: normal port build cost: 4 wood 3 balsa 3 stone 3 rubber 3 rope 2 gold return on dismantle: 2 wood 2 balsa 1 stone 1 rubber 2 rope 1 gold

  • cassava root plantation: farm-like building, produces cassava root build cost: 4 wood 2 ropes 2 stone return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 rope 1 stone working cycle: like imperial or atlantean farms worker: farmer (requires showel)

  • cocoa farm: farm-like building, produces cocoa beans build cost: 4 wood 2 stone 2 rubber return on dismantle: 2 wood 1 stone 1 rubber working cycle: like a farm worker: farmer (requires showel)

  • training glade: soldiers learn the other promotions here build cost: 5 wood 4 ironwood 4 stone 4 rubber 2 rope 2 gold return on dismantle: 3 wood 2 ironwood 2 stone 2 rubber 1 rope 1 gold working cycle: like other training sites worker: trainer

  • fortress: military site. upgrades to fortification build cost: 2 wood 6 ironwood 6 stone 2 rubber return on dismantle: 1 wood 3 ironwood 3 stone 1 rubber garrison: 8 conquer range: 11 vision range: 15 healing: 170

  • fortification: military site. upgraded from fortress upgrade cost: 4 ironwood 4 stone 2 rope return on dismantle: 1 wood 5 ironwood 5 stone 1 rubber garrison: 12 conquer range: 12 vision range: 16 healing: 220

Edited: 2019-08-18, 16:19

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:13

mines

  • gold digger dwelling: replaces gold mine. you know that method of gold digging where you put the rough material on a slide and pour water over it? that's the one. produces 1 gold ore out of 1 ration and 5 water. manned by a gold digger. build cost: 4 wood, 1 rope return on dismantle: 2 wood radius: 1 working cycle: not sure how to put that in numbers, but something close to barbarian gold mine. worker: gold digger (no requirments)

  • stone mine: get stones. as amazonians use stone tools, which wear down fast with use, every 10 working cycles the miner will become a normal carrier (can be achieved with worker experience, where worker with full experience instead of becoming a master becomes a trainer again) and will need another pick to start working again. produces 2 stone out of 1 ration. build cost: 2 wood (it's a hole in the ground, can't be that expensive to build) return on dismantle: 1 wood radius: 1 working cycle: similar to barbarian granite mine. worker: stonecutter (yes, the same that works in quarries)(requires pick)

tools

  • showel (1 ironwood): junglemaster, rare trees planter, farmer
  • axe (1 wood, 1 stone): woodcutter
  • pick (1 wood 1 stone): stonecutter
  • machete (1 wood, 1 stone): liana cutter
  • spear (1 ironwood): hunter-gatherer
  • kitchen utensils (1 wood, 1 stone): cook
  • hammer (1 wood, 1 stone): builder, stonecarver, shipwright
  • chisel (1 stone): stonecarver
  • pins (1 stone): dressmaker
Edited: 2019-08-18, 15:14

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:16

since i made rare trees woodcutter upgraded from woodcutter, i could also made rare tree plantation upgraded from forester. I discarded the concept because i was afraid the tribe would have too few mmedium buildings and too many small ones, but i see now that's not a concern, so the rare tree plantation could be made an upgrade of the forester. in that case the regular forester would be called jungle preserver, and the advanced forester would be the junglemaster.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 15:26

port: normal port build cost: 4 wood 3 balsa 3 stone 3 rubber 3 rope return on dismantle: 2 wood 2 balsa 1 stone 1 rubber 2 rope

and no gold??

stone mine: get stones. as amazonians use stone tools, which wear down fast with use, every 10 working cycles the miner will become a normal carrier (can be achieved with worker experience, where worker with full experience instead of becoming a master becomes a trainer again) and will need another pick to start working again

No, this is not possible. Implementing it like this would mean the carrier is an enhancement over the miner (like bar/emp/fri master miner over miner) and therefore a carrier can directly fill out the place of a miner.

But how about instead making miners costless and requiring picks as input wares?

@hessenfarmer: You said you also want to do some lua scripting, how do we want to share the load?

Edited: 2019-08-18, 15:29

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-18, 16:25

Nordfriese wrote:

port: normal port build cost: 4 wood 3 balsa 3 stone 3 rubber 3 rope return on dismantle: 2 wood 2 balsa 1 stone 1 rubber 2 rope

and no gold??

woops, i forgot. added now

stone mine: get stones. as amazonians use stone tools, which wear down fast with use, every 10 working cycles the miner will become a normal carrier (can be achieved with worker experience, where worker with full experience instead of becoming a master becomes a trainer again) and will need another pick to start working again

No, this is not possible. Implementing it like this would mean the carrier is an enhancement over the miner (like bar/emp/fri master miner over miner) and therefore a carrier can directly fill out the place of a miner.

But how about instead making miners costless and requiring picks as input wares?

would be nice, but won't that mess up greatly with the work cycle? i mean, if the cycle consumes a pick and then won't take another for 10 more cycles, then it means that interrupting the cycle will consume a new pick again. and if the pick is consummed at the end, then interrupting the cycle will save the pick.

the only way i can see to implement it would be to have all the food needed to make 10 stones consummed at once. which is the lesser evil, but quite clunky. it would be like, 5 food + 1 pick makes 10 stones.

picks could also be added to the starting cost of the mine (they are spare ones and will last with the mine) but i loathe introducing possibilities to lock themselves out of a ware, like making a stone-producing mine requiring stones

maybe the idea of consumming picks has to be scrapped. programmer's choice


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-08-20, 09:07

Hi,
to get things going I created a branch with placeholders for every building (Just copied them from another tribe and renamed the folders so far) https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/amazons. Will start doing the lua stuff tonight.
@ Nordfriese: I would like you to look into graphics while I am doing lua. For the complicated things I'll ask for your support / opinion.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-20, 13:06

Okay. The Amazons are a tribe with a high affinity to the woods, especially the jungle. Therefore, their buildings are made chiefly of trees. Unlike e.g. frisians, logs are not just intended to be plain and functional, but Amazons also want them to look beautiful. They like to treat the bark of the trees in a way that makes them look shiny and chiseled and gives them a characteristic pattering. The logs near the front side of the houses are etched by a method that makes the light catch in the bark and gives them a peculiar speckled shine.

Here is a first sketch what I would imagine their houses to look like:

This is by no means intended as a final version of a model, merely as a sketch that illustrates the idea I have of Amazonian architecture. What do you think?


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