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Topic: new tribe: amazons

Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-16, 20:08

Yes, I´ll be happy to do that face-smile.png


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-08-16, 21:18

Although I really would love to see the amazons may I ask for an upgrade of frisian graphics? As some people commented correctly they seem to be to big in comparison withthe other tribes. Perhaps this would vanish with the mipmaps but if not we need to take care of this in my opinion.
I would be happy to do some lua scripting for the amazons in return.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-16, 21:20

some people commented correctly they seem to be to big in comparison withthe other tribes. Perhaps this would vanish with the mipmaps but if not we need to take care of this in my opinion

I will take care of it when exporting the mipmaps, then I have to do the whole stuff only once


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-08-16, 21:24

Nordfriese wrote:

some people commented correctly they seem to be to big in comparison withthe other tribes. Perhaps this would vanish with the mipmaps but if not we need to take care of this in my opinion

I will take care of it when exporting the mipmaps, then I have to do the whole stuff only once

sounds great I just wanted to make sure this doesn't get forgotten.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2019-08-16, 22:18

hessenfarmer wrote: sounds great I just wanted to make sure this doesn't get forgotten.

Yeah, great Idea face-smile.png do you already have Ideas / collecting conzepts?


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-17, 00:52

so, let's recap:

wares

  • wood: just your regular trunk

  • ironwood: a harder quality of wood, used for advanced buildings and weapons

  • rubber: used for some buildings and armors

  • balsa: lightweight wood, used for boats, some armor and buildings

  • fish: just regular fish

  • meat: nothing special here too

  • cassava root: grown in farms, equivalent to corn/wheat/grain

  • stone: it's the same stone of the other tribes, only they don't use it for buildings but they use it for tools

  • water: water is water. however, they can also get it from rivers, more easily

  • gold dust: other tribes get gold ore, they get gold dust, but it's really the same thing

  • charcoal: they don't dig coal in the mines, they only get it from charcoal burners

  • gold: gold ingots ready to be worked

  • rations: make the mines go

  • ropes: without planks and nails, they bind the trunks together to make buildings. used in some buildings.

  • liana: they get them from the trees and use them to make ropes.

buildings

  • gold digger dwelling: replaces gold mine. you know that method of gold digging where you put the rough material on a slideand pour water over it? that's the one. produces gold ore out of ration and 5 water. manned by a gold digger.

  • woodcutter hut: just your regular woodcuter. will also collect balsa, rubber and ironwood (see below); will prioritize those resources as long as the economy has demand for them

  • junglemaster hut: a forester, but more efficient: plants trees already at the second stage of growth (pole) and is a bit faster. maybe it could be built on forested mountains

  • liana cutter hut: this guy cuts lianas to be used as ropes and tie buildings. he just get them from trees, nothing fancy: he goes to a tree, he works and gets a liana, without harming the tree.

  • ropeweaver booth: turns 2 lianas into one rope

  • stonecutter hut: just a regular stonecutter, but it works more slowly because he lacks iron tools

  • charcoal burner: makes charcoal out of 6 wood

  • rare tree plantation: plants balsa trees, rubber trees, and ironwood trees. it works like a forester, except those trees grow equally well in any soil that's conductive to trees at all. such trees are cut by woodcutters, and woodcutters of other tribes will just get a log out of them. amazonian woodcutters will get ironwood, rubber and balsa.

  • cassava root plantation: farm-like building, produces cassava root

  • well: just a well, but if it is near a lake or river (lake: a body of water completely surrounded by land and no bigger than 100 triangles. river: at any water corner within 10 corners away, there is land no further away than 2 corners) it will instead walk to it and get three buckets at once. yeah, this is farily complex to code, so it will probably be dropped in favor oof a regular well.

  • hunter-gatherer hut: the hunter-gatherer will grab a fish or hunt an animal, at alternate times.

  • wilderness keeper tent: the wilderness keeper will release a new animal in the wild or a new fish into water, at alternate times. Will only release a new animal near a tree.

  • food preserver: makes a ration out of cassava bread, meat/fish, and charcoal (I'm thinking some kind of fire-dried food, sort of like pemmican in the preparation)

  • cassava root cooker: makes cassava bread

  • stonecarver: carves stone into tools and weapons. Makes tools out of stone, wood and/or ropes. Makes weapons out of ironwood and stone.

  • dressmaker: makes all kinds of armors from ironwood, rubber, balsa, and gold.

  • furnace: smelts gold dust and charcoal into gold

  • gardening center: terraforms land into more fertile land. with one charcoal and one fish, it turns a triangle into a different, more fertile triangle according to a fixed scheme. this is inspired from the "terra preta". and since amazonians have no use for mountains, let them turn them to forested mountains and use them to grow more trees. does not turn unbuildable land into buildable land.

  • youth gathering: where new warriors are recruited

  • warrior's gathering: soldiers learn the attack promotions here

  • training glade: soldiers learn the other promotions here

soldier stats and levels:

starting stats attack 12-16, healt 130, defence 5, evade 30.

top promotions attack 2 healt 3 defence 2 evade 3

bonus for promotion 6.5 - 23 - 10 - 15

soldier wares:

  • spear: costs 1 ironwood. needed to make new soldiers (note: someone would like bows better, but I think it would look stupid to have warriors equipped with bows doing nothing but melee)

  • stone-tipped spear: costs 1 ironwood and 1 stone. Needed to train attack from 0 to 1

  • hardened spear: costs 2 ironwood and 1 stone. needed to train attack from 1 to 2.

  • tunic: costs 1 rope and 1 rubber. needed to make new soldiers. Since soldiers would be very cheap, they also should cost some food (papaya, not meat which is inexpensive)

  • light wooden armor: costs 2 balsa and one rope. needed to train healt from 0 to 1

  • wooden helmet: costs 1 ironwood and 1 rubber. Needed to train healt from 1 to 2.

  • warrior's coat: costs 1 ironwood 2 balsa 1 rubber and 1 gold. Needed to train healt from 2 to 3.

  • sturdy boots: good boots make you faster on your feet. Costs 1 rubber 1 balsa and is needed to train evade from 0 to 1

  • swift boots: costs 3 rubber. needed to train evade from 1 to 2.

  • hero's boots: cost 3 rubber and 1 gold. needed to train evade from 2 to 3.

  • padded vest: costs 2 rubber 2 ropes. needed to train defence from 0 to 1.

  • padded protector: costs 2 rubber 2 ropes 1 balsa 1 gold. Needed to train defence from 1 to 2.

a basic soldier is made from a spear and tunic and a papaya and a meat/fish.

that's the suggestion for now, feel free to add. in particular we may want more complex chains to get armors if we want weapons to be the basic cheap promotions and the other to be the advanced expensive promotions.

I incorporated a few suggestions from earlier. If there is nothing particularly important to change, i would start trying values in the next days. then someone can code for it, and we can try and adjust as needed.

I am counting only 21 buildings. the number will grow to incorporate military buildings, port, warehouse. but i counted for atllanteans, and even keeping out those buildings that are not listed for amazonians, they have 29. I think this tribe should have less building than the others (it has no coal or iron mines, after all) . And now I realize they need a secondary carrier and a stone mine (they do use stone for weapons, so they need a steady supply). that's two more buildings.

but I still think one or two more buildings would be ideal.

for carriers, since they have no domesticable large animals, my idea is to give them the "strongman". it's a carrier on steroids that carries two wares at a time. it is made at some building that we're totally not calling a gym xD

Edited: 2019-08-17, 01:00

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-17, 13:07

junglemaster hut: a forester, but more efficient: plants trees already at the second stage of growth (pole) and is a bit faster. maybe it could be built on forested mountains

Building on forested mountains is not something that could easily be implemented – either you give it "mine" size and it can be built only on mountains, but on all of them, or "small" size like regular forester.

liana cutter hut: this guy cuts lianas to be used as ropes and tie buildings. he just get them from trees, nothing fancy: he goes to a tree, he works and gets a liana, without harming the tree.

Can he get lianas from the same tree multiple times? And all trees or only certain growth stages?

rare tree plantation: plants balsa trees, rubber trees, and ironwood trees. it works like a forester, except those trees grow equally well in any soil that's conductive to trees at all. such trees are cut by woodcutters, and woodcutters of other tribes will just get a log out of them. amazonian woodcutters will get ironwood, rubber and balsa.

Then the woodcutter will need to have one working cycle for balsa only, one for rubber only, one for ironwood only, and one normal one. During the normal one, he will still be able to cut special trees and he´ll turn them into normal logs though.

well: just a well, but if it is near a lake or river (lake: a body of water completely surrounded by land and no bigger than 100 triangles. river: at any water corner within 10 corners away, there is land no further away than 2 corners) it will instead walk to it and get three buckets at once. yeah, this is farily complex to code, so it will probably be dropped in favor oof a regular well.

This is much too complex to code, but how about having a normal Well and a special Water Gatherer that walks to any nearby water triangles and gets much water from there?

wilderness keeper tent: the wilderness keeper will release a new animal in the wild or a new fish into water, at alternate times. Will only release a new animal near a tree.

Will it be penalized if it can´t do both? Releasing near a tree probably means "on a node where a tree stands". Which growth stages? And what animal species can be released?

gardening center: terraforms land into more fertile land. with one charcoal and one fish, it turns a triangle into a different, more fertile triangle according to a fixed scheme. this is inspired from the "terra preta". and since amazonians have no use for mountains, let them turn them to forested mountains and use them to grow more trees. does not turn unbuildable land into buildable land.

Shouldn´t be too hard. IMHO the best way to implement it is to define the one and only Enhancement Terrain into each terrain´s definition (no enhancement terrain provided means unenhanceable).
But this one:

since amazonians have no use for mountains

So where is the Gold Washer Dwelling built? Mountain or normal terrain? If normal, is it independent from gold resource then?

for carriers, since they have no domesticable large animals, my idea is to give them the "strongman". it's a carrier on steroids that carries two wares at a time

That will be very hard to code, please come up with a better suggestion…


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-08-17, 14:07

Nordfriese wrote:

junglemaster hut: a forester, but more efficient: plants trees already at the second stage of growth (pole) and is a bit faster. maybe it could be built on forested mountains

Building on forested mountains is not something that could easily be implemented – either you give it "mine" size and it can be built only on mountains, but on all of them, or "small" size like regular forester.

i was expecting something like that. it's ok, it can be done without if too complex to code

liana cutter hut: this guy cuts lianas to be used as ropes and tie buildings. he just get them from trees, nothing fancy: he goes to a tree, he works and gets a liana, without harming the tree.

Can he get lianas from the same tree multiple times? And all trees or only certain growth stages?

let's call it yes and only full grown trees. a bit like frisian beekeeper

rare tree plantation: plants balsa trees, rubber trees, and ironwood trees. it works like a forester, except those trees grow equally well in any soil that's conductive to trees at all. such trees are cut by woodcutters, and woodcutters of other tribes will just get a log out of them. amazonian woodcutters will get ironwood, rubber and balsa.

Then the woodcutter will need to have one working cycle for balsa only, one for rubber only, one for ironwood only, and one normal one. During the normal one, he will still be able to cut special trees and he´ll turn them into normal logs though.

ok, so maybe an alternative is to have a "rare tree woodcutter" that only chops those rare trees, while the regular wooodcutter ignores them.

on the other hand, woodcutter of other tribes would still need to be able to cut those rare trees, otherwise it is too easy to make a tree wall that cannot be cut.

if that is still too complex, then the rare tree plantation could just work like a farm, seed and cut its own trees.

well: just a well, but if it is near a lake or river (lake: a body of water completely surrounded by land and no bigger than 100 triangles. river: at any water corner within 10 corners away, there is land no further away than 2 corners) it will instead walk to it and get three buckets at once. yeah, this is farily complex to code, so it will probably be dropped in favor oof a regular well.

This is much too complex to code, but how about having a normal Well and a special Water Gatherer that walks to any nearby water triangles and gets much water from there?

perhaps we can just give them normal wells. they don't need special amounts of water.

or perhaps only water gatherers that walk to nearby water triangles.

wilderness keeper tent: the wilderness keeper will release a new animal in the wild or a new fish into water, at alternate times. Will only release a new animal near a tree.

Will it be penalized if it can´t do both? Releasing near a tree probably means "on a node where a tree stands". Which growth stages? And what animal species can be released?

ideally it should not be penalyzed if it can't do both, though i know it's generally the norm for workers with alternating working cycles. perhaps we could avoid that if we put the "sleep" time as part of the working cycle and not as a pause between one and the oother.

on a node where a tree stands, right. let's say only full grown trees, and any animal species? how does barbarian work for choosing which animal to release?

gardening center: terraforms land into more fertile land. with one charcoal and one fish, it turns a triangle into a different, more fertile triangle according to a fixed scheme. this is inspired from the "terra preta". and since amazonians have no use for mountains, let them turn them to forested mountains and use them to grow more trees. does not turn unbuildable land into buildable land.

Shouldn´t be too hard. IMHO the best way to implement it is to define the one and only Enhancement Terrain into each terrain´s definition (no enhancement terrain provided means unenhanceable).
But this one:

since amazonians have no use for mountains

So where is the Gold Washer Dwelling built? Mountain or normal terrain? If normal, is it independent from gold resource then?

gold washer is on mountains on gold deposits, it's a gold mine in all but name. and they also should have stone mines. but they can't get anything from iron and coal, those are the mountains they cannot use.

for carriers, since they have no domesticable large animals, my idea is to give them the "strongman". it's a carrier on steroids that carries two wares at a time

That will be very hard to code, please come up with a better suggestion…

is there anyone who knows of something that fits with the amazonian theme and cold act as a secondary carrier? maybe monkeys? otherwise, the "strongman" would just act like a secondary carrier and carry wares normally


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NonServiam
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Posted at: 2019-08-17, 14:24

I really like the idea of the dippers who just drag up water from water triangles in buckets. In general I feel as if Amazons should develop more easily and strongly along rivers, less so on dry land. Maybe their wells should be very weak.

More of their products should require water. At the moment they don't seem make a drink? (Coffee?)

By "gold washer" I think we're talking about panning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_panning)? I like this idea too.

Rare tree woodcutter could work exactly like an empire stonemason who quarries, usually brings back stone, just occasionally brings back marble.

As pack animals, South Americans traditionally use donkeys and llamas. I don't know whether it's practical to code a llama though.

Edited: 2019-08-17, 14:24

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-08-17, 14:27

ok, so maybe an alternative is to have a "rare tree woodcutter" that only chops those rare trees, while the regular wooodcutter ignores them.

on the other hand, woodcutter of other tribes would still need to be able to cut those rare trees, otherwise it is too easy to make a tree wall that cannot be cut.

Currently, all adult trees carry the tag "tree" and the woodcutters look for immovables tagged "tree". We could give the special trees the "tree" tag so other woodcutters chop them; whereas the amazon woodcutter looks for immovables tagged "tree_normal" and this new tag is added only to the classical trees.

perhaps we can just give them normal wells. they don't need special amounts of water.

or perhaps only water gatherers that walk to nearby water triangles.

I would vote for only water gatherers, though this will make them depend on having at least 1 water triangle nearby

ideally it should not be penalyzed if it can't do both, though i know it's generally the norm for workers with alternating working cycles. perhaps we could avoid that if we put the "sleep" time as part of the working cycle and not as a pause between one and the oother.

Even easier: We can play around with on failure fail/skip conditions, that will allow almost any behaviour we want

on a node where a tree stands, right. let's say only full grown trees, and any animal species? how does barbarian work for choosing which animal to release?

Barbarian gamekeeper has a list with all allowed bob types in his init.lua. Only species explicitly listed there are allowed. He chooses one of them at random every time.

is there anyone who knows of something that fits with the amazonian theme and could act as a secondary carrier? maybe monkeys?

Dodenkoppäffekens – they chatter and run away with your wares? face-wink.png
How about – silly but serious suggestion – tamed Tapirs?

otherwise, the "strongman" would just act like a secondary carrier and carry wares normally

This would look strange – why not just use a normal carrier as 2nd carrier then…


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