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Topic: new tribe: amazons

Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-09-13, 20:28

As far as I understood breed is an additional flag to the find resource command. resource:fish will therefore only find nodes with at least one fish as 0 fish is equivalent to no resource.

Not quite. If the breed flag is absent, a FindNodeResource is used, which accepts only nodes with at least 1 unit of the target resource. If breed is set, a FindNodeBreedableResource is used, which accepts all nodes where the initial amount of the target resource is > 0 and the current amount is lower than the initial amount.

There are no checks that interpret 0 resources as no resource (those were removed for b20 to fix a bug where the fishbreeder´s behaviour on depleted nodes changed after saveloading); a current amount of 0 means that the resource is still there, just with 0 units.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-13, 20:46

Does this mean atlantean fishbreeders are now breeding on empty nodes since b20?


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 01:48

anoother glitch; gardening centers are supposed to not be able to enhance a terrain twice, yet they are doing.

also, they are still terribly expensive and slow to work. Even with a lot of woodcutters and charcoal burners, they are eating up all my wood. A choice must now be made; shall we buff them and make them somewhat viable, or shall we keep them as a curiosity that's never going to see serious use? EDIT: or even remove them altogether if they're more trouble than they're worth?

Edited: 2019-09-14, 04:02

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 07:54

anoother glitch; gardening centers are supposed to not be able to enhance a terrain twice, yet they are doing.

Which one?

also, they are still terribly expensive and slow to work. Even with a lot of woodcutters and charcoal burners, they are eating up all my wood. A choice must now be made; shall we buff them and make them somewhat viable, or shall we keep them as a curiosity that's never going to see serious use? EDIT: or even remove them altogether if they're more trouble than they're worth?

I´m in favour of keeping them, they give amazons a real advantage on maps with much infertile ground. I´d vote to make them just cheaper to run (e.g. consume 1 fish, enhance 3 nodes, consume 1 charcoal, enhance 3 nodes)?


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 11:14

Charcoal is a lot more expensive than fish, isn't it? In that case, everybody would just set the charcoal input to 0.

We could try scaling this, e.g. 1 fish -> 1 node, 1 charcoal -> 5 nodes?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 14:21

Does this mean atlantean fishbreeders are now breeding on empty nodes since b20?

Not on empty nodes but on totally depleted nodes, yes.

Charcoal is a lot more expensive than fish, isn't it? In that case, everybody would just set the charcoal input to 0.

We could try scaling this, e.g. 1 fish -> 1 node, 1 charcoal -> 5 nodes?

Good point, +1 for this. Then one can still enhance terrain with only cheap fish, and it´s much more efficient if one also supplies charcoal. We should also penalize lacking coal with extra sleep time then IMHO

Edited: 2019-09-14, 14:23

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 14:40

Nordfriese wrote:

anoother glitch; gardening centers are supposed to not be able to enhance a terrain twice, yet they are doing.

Which one?

desert 4, the buildable desert terrain of the desert biome, gets enhanced to dry terrain. from there, it get enhanced further.

as for advantage on bad terrain, that's the problem. I'm testing it on the to make the desert bloom map, and after a couple hours of use the improvements to the land are very limited. and the cost is HUUUGE, and they are SLOOOW. I mean, in two hours they still have plenty of unimproved land around, and they costed me I don't know how much charcoal. making a few more junglemasters is a much cheaper way to get more trees.

If we have to improve it, I suggest 1 ccharcoal 1 fish it could work 6 times and enhance 2 triangles at a time (so, doubling the efficiency compared to now). And perhaps we could have it work more organically by turning the charcoal and fish into six terra preta, and then using one terra preta to convvert triangles.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 15:09

Well, if a terrain´s enhancement has an enhancement, the triangle can of course be enhanced again...

We could also consider decreasing the gardening center´s workarea, so the patches of fertile soil are more concentrated and the growth effect is sooner apparent. It could also be sped up. And with the suggestion above you could operate it only on cheap fish for more cost efficiency.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-14, 17:56

reducing the radius would make it less effective, because you'd need more to work the same area. it would make it more apparent, but decreasing effectiveness for showyness is not desirable.

I'm now almost 6 hours into the game, and my gardeners (who have been working steadily at 100% for the last two hours or more, and has been working at lower percentages for two more hours) still are not finished with their work areas. An increase in speed (works more than one triangle at a time) would be desirable indeed

Also, if it doesn't already, the gardening center should give a message when it cannot find any more workable area

BY the way, more in the things of minor glitches: lianas can only be made into rope, so there is no point setting a target amount for ropes in the economy. like wine for empire.

Edited: 2019-09-14, 18:04

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-09-15, 00:24

king_of_nowhere wrote:

... gardening centers ...

EDIT: or even remove them altogether if they're more trouble than they're worth?

I'm against removing them, just make sure that they are not overpowered...

hessenfarmer wrote:

Does this mean atlantean fishbreeders are now breeding on empty nodes since b20?

I think so. In my opinion this is still better than the last behavior. When I learned the game it disappointed me that fish breeders could not breed in empty water even when the water right next to it had still fish.

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

First we have 4 Tribes up to now and will end with 5 very soon. ;-)

still, we have 3 core tribes that are at least roughly balanced. frisians are not there. amazons may be, if we can fix the early game issues.

frisians are not that far away I guess as long as the game takes longer than e.g. crater or similar.

I think that Frisian are too weak in the midgame. On bigger maps with low amounts of resources they may be strong enough to defeat barbarians or empire (if they have to enhance their mines and build piggeries), but probably not atlanteans, at least not if the game is decided by fighting.

At the other hand: Frisians might be strong enough at short distances, because they have the best starting conditions. Recently I played some matches with them on small maps against the-x and Mars (Atlanteans) and it worked very well.

king_of_nowhere wrote: forested mountain is a poor soil to grow trees

Only ice-terrain forested mountains. The three other terrain types have forested mountains with good or excellent tree growth face-wink.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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