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Topic: Border expansion

Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 17:32

I have noticed that the destruction of a military building does not cause the borders to move back to its position before the building was constructed. Is this intentional?

Also, the borders expand only very little when military buildings are built, often it is necessary to built one building and then destroy it to make proper space for the next one, which is only a fragment closer to the border and will only move it so very slightly that another building can be build closer.

I can see how that the borders does not move back together with the small border movement by military buildings combine to make it possible to expand. Expansion simply would not be possible if the borders moved back if you destroy a building because they only move the border so little.

I would suggest another method which is to make the military buildings expand the border slightly further and then have the borders collapse if military buildings are not present.

If it is intentional that the borders does not fall back, I would still suggest to let all military buildings expand the border further than they do now as expansion is simply very cumbersome currently, too cumbersome in my opinion, as where is the logic in having spend resources building a building just to destroy it right after?


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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
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Posted at: 2009-04-13, 17:56

Hmm obviously you didn't think far enough face-wink.png

so first of all:

Is this intentional?

Yes absolutely!

as expansion is simply very cumbersome currently, too cumbersome in my opinion, as where is the logic in having spend resources building a building just to destroy it right after?

noone told you to destroy the buildings face-tongue.png - of course you can if you need the space and already secured your borders with new military buildings (I do so sometimes when I need space for farms or forests) But the point is: you should never destroy all miltary buildings - as soon as another player comes near you, you won't be able to defend - even if you've still some military buildings at the border, as soon as those are destroyed, there will be no secure between your economy and the enemy... face-wink.png

Cheers Nasenbaer

Edited: 2009-04-13, 18:01

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Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:12

Noone told meto destroy them, true, but if I do not destory them, then often it is impossible to build a new military building to move the border.

Currently you need an excesive amount of military buildings to move the border (and this takes up a lot of space), even if you build lvl 2 buildings such as Barriers etc, the border only moves slightly and you will ned 4 of them to move the border the length of the screen (and that is on 1000X600 resolution, I play from a netbook with only a 8.9 inch screen so it is not because my screen is excessively big).

I'm not suggesting to double the border expansion of each miulitary building, only to make it slightly bigger (10 % or so) as it is currently very small.

And yes, you will not be able to defend if you destroy them all. But I have just been sitting playing the second map in the empire campaign and there where parts of the island that I could not acces no matter how I positioned the military buildings because of the low border movement. And also in order to attack their HQ it was only a Tower placed at the very edge of my border up to theirs that could see long enough into enemy territory to attack them (possibly a fortress could have done the same, didn't try), but I couldn't place the tower there before having destroyed two other military buildings at the border to make space for its construction. It might be intentional, but it seems to defeat its own purpose. It feels stupid to have to build a building to expand the border just ever so slightly so that you can destroy the building to make the space that will allow you to build another building of the same kind closer to the border (as often only the smallest buildings can be built at the border after its expansion of a medium lvl building unlessthe medium lvl is destroyed).


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Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:14

The trouble gets very big in relation to mountains where you seem to be able to hardly get halfway up it.


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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
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Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:25

Okay that's true for some maps, but generally it shouldn't be a problem (and again a screenshot face-wink.png )

It would be nice if you post the maps where you have problems with conquering mountains - so we can fix that issue face-smile.png

Cheers Nasenbaer


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Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:30

I will just go make a screeenshot of the map.

On another note, in that single screenshot i count 13 military buildings... do you not think that it is a bit on the excessive side?


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Nasenbaer
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Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:38

if the gold mine were in secure area it would have been enough, but it's a screenshot of a internet game (same internet game as the "barbarians end" screenshots are from) and the other player had a fortress, two barriers and a lot of sentries at the feet of the mountain... the map has only this gold mine spot and you can only build small buildings at the mountain so I build as much military buildings as possible to defend the gold mines face-smile.png

Hope that explains the overpowered military presence face-wink.png

And by the way: there were ~ 10 full trained atlantean soldiers in that buildings - more than on any other border face-wink.png


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Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:45

Oh...my print screen function does not work on my computer I'm afraid.

But it is called empire tutorial 2.

The island is f-shaped with the f lying face down. On the branch furthest away the enemy is, and you start at the stem of the f. The middle branch is unaccesible because of the mountain there, I have tried any combination of military buildings but cannot overcome the mountain.

If you would really like to see it, I can probably send the savegame?


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Lars_Krimi
Joined: 2009-04-13, 17:06
Posts: 39
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 18:46

Ah, explains face-smile.png


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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2009-04-13, 19:17

Ahh I see face-smile.png

I fixed that part of the map in SVN (current development version)

Thanks for noting this problem face-smile.png


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