Topic: New Immovables

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SirVer Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1447 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-03-22, 09:02 UTC+1.0 That sounds like a great idea! they could be implemented as very, very big immovables that just cover all of those fields. One must make sure that they do not make playing the map hard, e.g. by hiding buildings/ways behind it. Top Quote

martin Joined: 2011-01-13, 14:21 UTC+1.0 Posts: 65 Likes to be here	Posted at: 2011-03-22, 09:59 UTC+1.0 Astuur, your idea sounds really interesting I just find it hard to imagine, how the mountains and rivers will look like in the game Maybe, an example graphic would help a lot - for later, I mean. Of course I know, by now it is still just an idea Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 UTC+1.0 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-03-23, 12:06 UTC+1.0 @ Martin: Yep, that's the hard part I do have an idea about how they should look, but being no artist myself, I can so far only describe it with words. I can try a montage, maybe. There are wonderful programs, like terragen, that give almost photorealistic illusions, but that is not what I'd want. Those mountains would still need to look somewhat handmade ann not show to many details. They also must be adapted to the overall colors and the style of WL. Something like the S2 stones (for quarry) might be allright, but bigger of course. I guess that would be a blender task to make them, starting from a mesh. If a little fractal magic can be used, that would be fine. But I am not sure there are add-ons of that sort for blender. I'm not very familiar with blender, unfortunately. Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 UTC+1.0 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-03-23, 13:47 UTC+1.0 @Astuur: Man, I am LOVING the ideas you are bringing! The marsh and river vegetation, more relics and ruins, and the mountains certainly sound very achievable. I feel they all should be seriously pursued and included in build 17. As soon as we get those Barbarian building models straightened out, I will have opportunity to play with some random fractal mesh effects for mountain building. I can hardly wait! (EDIT: That's not to say that some other readersof this forum shouldn't give it a try!) @fraang: I wasn't around when the existing trees were put into widelands, so animating your palm tree will be a learning experience for both of us. We may still need to tone the hues down a bit, but all in due time. Edited: 2011-03-23, 13:53 UTC+1.0 I see little people. Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 UTC+1.0 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-03-23, 20:16 UTC+1.0 Glad you like the ideas, Chuck, and since SirVer likes it too, (a fact I'm no less glad about ), we may see some of it happen. That's of course, if no other relevant folks oppose the idea. I have experimented a bit and found SirVer is very right in mentioning the dangers. Mountains will look good, but mapmakers will have to use them with due care. The danger is to not give up the universal exchangeability of the starting places with mirrored maps. If a mountain slope, that would be mineable is covered by a mountain immovable, a human player can not build there, but (I guess) the AI will. But mapmakers are thoughtful people. They'll manage Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 UTC+1.0 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-04-27, 09:21 UTC+2.0 Coming back to this topic after a while, I have 2 new, very simple suggestions. 1) an invisible immovable! Now -- do I have a nerve, proposing this in a graphics forum? In this thread Ixprefect explains how regions that allow medium size buildings (but not large ones) must be created from unrestricting terrain by using blocking immovables, not by height profile. These immovables must be blocking and indestructible by the player in order to do the trick. We don't have much choices there. The least visible item from the "ruin" series is quite good on grassland, but something even less intrusive may be helpful. (completely transparent, a whole in the ground, a stone - whatever.) 2) bushes, brambles, bracken in a variety of shapes. Something that you can form small irregular groups of. We currently have sort of "one each", but that is just too repetetive. These things must be created and placed with a bit of botanical knowledge. Having groups of cactusses in a swamp is just downright silly. Maybe the UI should prevent such nonsense, or at the least explain where all these plants should be places and where not. They're only eye candy and can disappear when roads are built of houses. Not very challenging, I admit, but they would help to create better looking worlds. Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

SirVer Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1447 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-04-28, 07:48 UTC+2.0 I agree that we need more blocking immovable that cannot be removed, but I feel that a completely invisible one would confuse the player. But there are plenty of ideas that could be used. Note that you should be able to make medium sized buildings also with mixing buildable and non buildable (e.g. snow or lava) terrain (afaik. not completely sure currently). Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 UTC+1.0 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-04-28, 09:31 UTC+2.0 SirVer wrote: ...but I feel that a completely invisible one [immovable] would confuse the player. Hmm... they would fell all trees and collect all stones and still cannot build a big site. That is true. Invisible would have been most versatile, but we can do without, if you want to avoid puzzling folks. Okay then, so let's give them some indicator. Unminable rocks, (all worlds) maybe a big old (unfellable) tree, with a bird's nest (all worlds) an animated bubbling mudhole? (Blackland) an anthill, (Greenland) a foxhole, (Greenland) a molehill (greenland) (good, since mulitple ones are very credible!) a tile to make crevasses of variable length (Winterland) a pit full of snakes (Desert) Note that you should be able to make medium sized buildings also with mixing buildable and non buildable (e.g. snow or lava) terrain (afaik. not completely sure currently). I did not manage to do this. Terrain that disallowes buildings does not seem to affect the vicinity in that regard. Or did I misunderstand you? Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 UTC+1.0 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-04-28, 14:35 UTC+2.0 @ NEWBIES We have some great ideas in this forum for folks who may want to try their hand at designing graphic art for the game. If you are wondering if/how you can get started, read on. Don't let talk of animation put you off. Check out the GettingStarted and GraphicsDevelopment wiki pages, download a 2D or 3D graphics editor like GIMP or Blender (or both!) and dive in! Feel free to ask questions you may have here or in the IRC Chat room or directly in a message to me. We WANT to see your work! So, what are you waiting for?!! I see little people. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 UTC+1.0 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-04-28, 14:56 UTC+2.0 I'd like to recap the suggestions so far for new immovables and add a couple of my own: Palm tree and other new trees Plants near water bodies Hints at a previous culture slabs of an ancient road half-ruined archway a single standing column fallen and broken columns pieces of masonry Mountains (for large impassable areas) Volcanoes animated bubbling mudhole (Blackland) geyser (Blackland, Greenland) steaming hot springs Rivers boulders in rivers that show some water current moving water, rapids fish jumping out of water Whirlpool in water waterfalls bushes, brambles, bracken in irregular shapes Unminable rocks (all worlds) big old unfellable tree, with a bird's nest (all worlds) anthill (Greenland) foxhole (Greenland) molehill (Greenland) crevasses of variable length (Winterland, Desert?) pit full of snakes (Desert) Edited for format Edited: 2011-04-28, 14:59 UTC+2.0 I see little people. Top Quote

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