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Topic: 2022 Tournament Replays

Mars

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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 09:32

tothxa wrote:

The first one ends with the-x losing his fortification [..] So the second part starts a few minutes earlier.

It seems somehow unfair to load a savegame where he has not lost the fortification yet.

Usually, there should be a savegame available when the game crashed/ended. In the past, it was common to lose game play progress. But these times are long gone.


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 10:37

Mars wrote:

tothxa wrote:

The first one ends with the-x losing his fortification [..] So the second part starts a few minutes earlier.

It seems somehow unfair to load a savegame where he has not lost the fortification yet.

Well, yes, when we stepped back, I expected that he would dismantle that fortification after some fighting. I haven't analysed the replays yet, but it felt that he used the few minutes he gained to prepare much better for the attack on that side, which was most unfair of him, because initially that attack caught him entirely by surprise. He commended me for fair play for allowing the step back, but he did not play fair himself. But I should have told him so right then. And even then, he would have had plenty of time to build up a strong defensive wall there too, and by that time his military had been much stronger. This would have been so even if I didn't allow the step back. But indeed, he would have been under much more pressure, and I may have built up a second military industry right next to his base.

edit:

I have reviewed it a little. I won't comment on what he did at the step-back. However I was in a much better position than I thought after I had captured his fortification initially. He wouldn't have been able to build up defense at the ford, only very close to his HQ, and even there he would have had to sacrifice even more of his economy to make room for it. Though it still would have taken me time to be able to attack his HQ, so it's hard to tell whether I even had a chance given his military strength – but then again, he was running out of rocks and unwilling to mine. So yes, would have been much much more interesting. face-smile.png

edit 2:

Thinking of it some more, probably a more reasonable request from the-x would have been that I destroy the captured fortification and not use the gained land until I build military sites to cover it. Especially because his decision to rely on a single fortification was not due to mouse problems. But as I said, I don't want to change my decision. Veteran tournament players probably wouldn't have agreed to any such request, but I guess this situation wasn't entirely unlike how young Polgár Judit felt seeing Каспаров's hand tremble. (not claiming any similar talent1 or future for myself)

Well, at least now I feel no more guilt for my 2 wins against stronger players because of my better use of the quirks of the maps and win conditions. face-smile.png


  1. with apologies to Polgár László's theory :) 

Edited: 2022-10-15, 16:27

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 11:36

I will review the replay tonight very closely. Such accusations are not made the first time. So I take them seriously.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:07

This is fairplay and so it should be. For the future, to solve this problem with dismantling sites, it is important to have a rule which doesnt destroy the game. The easiest and in my opinion best way would be that sites get automatically dismantled, this will prevent from a lot of possibilities of disputes. In every similar situation before, of course, i also agreed to load the last savegame, it feels like fairplay not to take advantage of it. Other way around, of course i did not take advantage of it since i was not building any site but building farms not to proceed.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:17

hessenfarmer wrote:

the-x wrote:

Congratulations, a very intense match : -) - little question: why did you start with stonecutters and then woodcutters and then jungle masters?

Stonecutters to get to the free land as quick as possible. Wooodcutters afterwards cause amazons need an immense amount of wood. jungle masters needed to wait for some free space and furthermore can be placed lately as they plant trees alreadyy as poles instead of saplings.

I was wondering, because rare trees limit all steps in the early game :- ) stonecutters before wood production makes much sence because of the expansion speed


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:20

If a milsite gets burned or captured, this is a mistake of the player. If you would have said, oh I overlooked this and tothxa would have accepted it would have been his decision. But according to him you claimed mouse problems to cover your mistake. This I would call a lie and unfair behaviour.

So I will decide tonight, how to solve this. In any case such behaviour is far from what would tell good sportsmanship.

Changing the game, because one player is not able to manage such situations will not happen hopefully.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:37

If both Players agree of course its fairplay. I also had the same issue many times and of course agreed even in cases it gave me disadvantage. I dont know why you turn it around with mouse problems, because it is obviously that in any situation i could i would dismantle this site. If Í agreed to reload i would say, ofc i would reload it. then we can open also cases in world's game.


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:47

hessenfarmer wrote:

I will review the replay tonight very closely. Such accusations are not made the first time. So I take them seriously.

Well, of course I accept the defeat. I basically did so when I agreed to the step back.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:48

Back to the game ; -) hopefully we get also a summary of the game itself and not just technical issues: tothxa played an excellent game against me. He was aiming at a fast harbor which gave him the possibility to attack me on my very weak flank, i saw it very late. Production Cycluses i managt in the usual known strenght with excellent timing in all views - there was only one very very hard error slowing my economiy significantly down, i had so little stone that i couldnt do anything. Coal production was even impossible to realize because of 4 stones , anything, food production didnt grow at all and had to been paused for 35 minutes - i had only one singly bakery but that one did finish - When i reached the massive stone in the middle anything turned and the whole economy went in the production of tools and the immense build of stony industry gave all the cycles the continuum they had missed for so long.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-10-15, 12:49

According to tothxa you claimed mouse problems to make him accept a reload. This was obviously not true, and he made his decision based on fake information.

So tricking someone into a decision by lying is a foul.


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