Latest Posts

Topic: 2022 Tournament Replays

hessenfarmer
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2014-12-11, 22:16
Posts: 2672
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 21:03

Regarding the match the-x vs. tothxa, I took a deep review of the replay and I am able to proof he had no problems with his mouse, because he launched an attack on the northern front just in the moment when the fortification was conquered. So he had lied about this and repeated to do so in various private messages to some elder of players including me.

Although thothxa in great sportmanship accepted to stand with his decision, I still deem such behviour foul play.

For this reason I will penalize the-x by 0,5 points for this round. Should anything similar happen again he will be disqualified from this tournament and may be banned for future tournaments, as long as they are organized by me.

For final arbitration (if this is really necessary), I propose our chieftain @Nordfriese. It is a pity that such situation has appeared and I am deeply sad that this has become part of my duty in organising a tournament, although it never had happened before.


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 22:04

Every decision has to be make by a rule

1) What is the exact rule that is not according to Tournament Rules? 2) Had the attack been made before the fortress and therefore doesnt give an answer to the case if and when i disvovered the fortress and wanted to delete it wanted

There must been an exact rule that covers this with reason, else this is just more a campagne of someone wanting to gain relative points illegally.

Moreover we must open a case of kaputtnik lying in the Tournament, which is a lot more relevant, than replaying 8 seconds of game again with both player (see above) agreeing and not changing anything in between the replay.

There are many cases of which kaputtnik tried in other tournaments under lying to get a another position - the position here (1 point) didnt change and shall be in case of gerenal rules & justice been removed. I will formulate the


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 22:34

From an outside point of view, it feels more like cutting a strong player. Since toxtha agreed in the first place when we played and he also agreed in forums. If this is the case a fair move would be to replay this excellent won match, but to change points is not fair, where are the 0,5 points? What should be a penalty is kaputtniks behaviour in his function deleting or even changing the exact sentence people wrote in forums.


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 22:58

The cases regarding kaputtniks missbehaviour:

We played our game on 2022-09-24, during the end of the game kaputtnik went loud and agressive and shouted at me to attack him or he will find ways to ban me from the tournament. He wrote in capital letters, and i felt really surpressed the way i have never felt before. I know that in his position, he will find sooner or later ways to remove a player. This force he used was aiming at forcing an attack from my side where i will lose most of my soldiers. By this move he could have won the round. After his rage quit in very loud noise, he tried with different terms, all not sence making to steal me my points - reversed his screenshots "The screenshots where taken some time before i quit the game, round about an hour before quitting." (2022-09-24, 19:40) as well as claiming the win cause the other player didnt attack him "Of course i had lost this game, and you all can call me childish" (also forums: 2022-09-24, 19:40)

Players should be calm, accept a defeat maybe write a gg or congratulate the winner, but this behaviour of kaputtnik really shocked me.


Top Quote
Seefahrer
Avatar
Joined: 2022-04-29, 17:24
Posts: 58
Ranking
Likes to be here
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 06:40

The-x, I understand your point of view regarding that you want to know which of the tournament rules applies to this case. I can't speak for hessenfarmer, but if you read the tournament rules in detail, in point 3 it is clearly outlined that also in the tournament the community has to stay sportmanlike. So if the facts are as described (I have not read from you in the last posts that you would challenge that description), that would be a clear violation of that tournament rule, and thus it would be also clear that this would result in a penalty, of course. I think, in hessenfarmer's posting everyone can see how hard it was to make that decision and that it didn't was an easy one. I must say, that if the facts are as described, I think that that is an even mild decision for you, as you are keeping 1 point for your win and loosing only 0,5 points, so in the end tothxa gets still 0 points and you 0,5 points (so that, if I understand the drawing system correctly, if probably in the next round WorldSaviour will play Mars and would win against him, and if you would win your next game, then so you still could reach rank 2 of the tournament in the end, which would be very good, of course) - if it would have been up to me, I would have assigned the game 1-0 for tothxa (regardingless of what he thinks of that) and I would have not only given a half but a full penalty point, so that in the end you would not get +0,5 but -1 point from that round, so I think, as said, it even is a rattert mild decision made by hessenfarmer.

I don't see where your recent postings are leading to: If you want to challenge hessenfarmer's decision, then act like he said and how the rules say: Appeal officially to the final arbiter or let it be. (If you think about appealing, please keep in my mind that the final arbiter could even come to the conclusion, that the penalty could even have been to mild and that he could gibt a higher penalty, as I would have done, and that you then maybe would not be able anymore to reach overall ranking second place.)

Your speaking about your game against kaputtnik here, is in my eyes mixing um two different things, which is not good in my eyes. In my game against kaputtnik, he was a very, very nice person, and I think it has been made clear that in your game he had time stress regarding real life plights, which of course are more important than any Computer game. Anyhow, if you feel that in your eyes kaputtnik would have acted unsportmanlike against you, then you are free to appeal this as a separate case to the arbiter, thus hessenfarmer.

I don't think widelands is about win or loss, but about PLAYING. So just let's play. Sometimes one wins, sometimes not. It is how it is. You are a strong player - just cherish that.


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 08:21

Two times i was asking kaputtnik to say sorry for what he had done. That he now even goes that far just to have a chance for the 2nd place is far to far. This is not the first time kaputtnik raging after a game.


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 08:40

hessenfarmer wrote:

he had no problems with his mouse, because he launched an attack on the northern front just in the moment when the fortification was conquered

In my honest opinion it is wrong, if we start to give tournament penalties for problems with keyboard or mouse. There are much more important and relevant things that need a penalty and not theese ones, maybe hessenfarmer will rethink this decision if not of course a second person will have to look at this. Moreover there should be a rule in Tournament Rules, so that players know that this is forbidden, i was playing many games in my life and didnt even care if the other one wanted to reload, he didnt even so it seems a bit strange to cut a good players tournament points, a fair solution might be to restart the lost game or sth like this.


Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 09:15

kaputtnik wrote:

This can't be true because i gave you one hour to start the final attack, remembering you after 30 minutes again, and 2 minutes before i quit the game. I told you that i will do so.

Alone the words, "I gave you one hour" shows a lot, so the forum admin can give player time or not in a tournament and decide who win a game or how much time one player get before he loses. If you read closer to the words you can see the harsh words he used when he ragequitted. He also used many threads...

I mean there are clear rules, and everybody has the same rights, especially in a Tournament.

The screenshots where taken some time before i quit the game, round about an hour before quitting.

He took the wrong screenshots and made the reader believe they were from the whole game, not the part as it was.


Top Quote
hessenfarmer
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2014-12-11, 22:16
Posts: 2672
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 09:42

@Seefahrer: Thank you for your words. And a big sorry from my side that you have to face such discussions in your very first tournament. It was never like this before and hopefully will never be so again.

@the-x:
1. Tournament Rules state that this should be kept sportsman like. Lying to an opponent to make him undo own errors is not sportsman like. Furthermore a rule to forbid such behaviour is not explicitly necessary.
2. You are proven to have lied as the attack I discovered in the replay is at the exact moment the fortification fell. Furthermore you repeated the lie together with an unbelievable story in various private messages to some senior members of this forum.
3. You now claim kaputtnik lying on the match between you, where he has clearly stated what happened. I decided in this issue that you were right to do so, and gave you 1 well deserved point. So this case was decided already and you got the point. Anyhow you never made a claim about the conversation, and you still do not deny the sequence of what has happened.
4. Accusing kaputtnik of some misbehaviour is again your normal behaviour to distract people from your own case. This will not work here. Accusing him of actively working on your disqualifaction lacks evry evidence, as he had nothing to do with your match vs. tothxa, nor with my decision. As you were found to be a liar in more then one instance, This is most probabl just another lie.
5. In one point kaputtnik made a very fair point we never had such discussions before you entered the community.
6. This disputes costed all of our senior members a lot of time and nerves.

So this is my LAST warning: You will STOP blaming kaputtnik for somthing he has not done immediately, or you will be kicked out of the tournament and I will vote for you being banned from the forum as well.
I really tried hard to keep my patience but now it is used up.

If you can make a substantial claim that my finding in the replay is wrong, you can appeal to our chieftain as there isn't any other elder to be the final arbiter.


Top Quote
kaputtnik
Avatar
Joined: 2013-02-18, 19:48
Posts: 2453
OS: Archlinux
Version: current master
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2022-10-18, 09:47

@ the-x: i really don't know what you are referring to, because:

kaputtnik wrote:

... announce the-x as the winner of this match.

Taken from this post

Please stop hijacking this topic which is about replays.

@ hessenfarmer: You are doing a great job here and i apologize for the work you had with my match against the-x.

Edited: 2022-10-18, 09:50

Fight simulator for Widelands:
https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/

Top Quote