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Topic: Amazon Lore

Alasia
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Joined: 2020-04-26, 05:07
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Location: Australia
Posted at: 2021-08-26, 19:20

Hi all, I've been working on adding lore for the Amazons, and would welcome some consensus on the lore before trying to write more flavour text for the tribe. In an effort to collate the inputs I've found so far, please see the following

When I added new ship names, I used rivers draining into the Amazon Basin, which was in keeping with the existing ship names.

From the above the basis of the lore is that Amazons are jungle dwelling women warriors, with stronger defensive rather than attack powers. They work with primarily renewable resources from plant materials, and are limited in their mining capabilities.

I have a bit better idea of a direction I'd like to head with the lore (which I'll elaborate on in a later post over the weekend), but I would like to seek input from others, and also do more research. @king_of_nowhere - do you have a source for the Mother Jungle/Father River story in the existing history page?

At the moment, as a start, I am thinking to make little poems or quotes from respected masters of their fields, and possibly for those masters to always take the names of Amazon River tributaries when they achieve mastery. As their culture is centred on the rivers and renewability, it makes sense that taking a river name would be a respectful way to ackowledge excellency of a master crafter, while acknowledging the past wisdom received and intended passing on of knowledge as a cycle.

Other possibilities are to use words from languages spoken in the (vast) region. As the orginal thoughts were for the tribe to be themed circa 1500, I think it might be better to seek for Tupian/Guaraní or Arawakan words if possible, as the Portguese and Spanish influences would not have been well established then.

With regards to in game changes, I'd like to propose changing the following names:

  1. The "Warrior's Gathering" to "School of Spears" (or something else). The site is listed immediately next to the Warrior's Dwelling, and the two are easily misclicked - and Gatherings are expensive mistakes! I realised that for consistency with other tribes, the two buildings would remain adjacent in the medium buildings list, a rename is a way to address that.

  2. The gold digger worker/ digger's dwelling to gold panner/ panner's hut. This is a more accurate description based on the high water usage, and the low resources required for the building indicates a hut rather than a more permanent dwelling. Also, the term "gold digger" is used in some contexts as very pejorative, especially when applied to women, so is not ideal for a women's tribe.

I realise that the two suggestions above will break save game compatibility, but as the tribe is listed as experimental, I think it's appropriate to consider the changes for v1.1 (at the latest).

(Edit: formatting, clarity)

Edited: 2021-08-26, 19:56

(formerly alasiaxx)

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2021-08-26, 19:32

Just to clarify, savegame compatibility can be maintained simply by adding the renamings to the respective table in src/logic/map_objects/descriptions_compatibility_table.cc


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 2016
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2021-08-26, 20:57

Alasia wrote:

Hi all, I've been working on adding lore for the Amazons, and would welcome some consensus on the lore before trying to write more flavour text for the tribe. In an effort to collate the inputs I've found so far, please see the following

When I added new ship names, I used rivers draining into the Amazon Basin, which was in keeping with the existing ship names.

From the above the basis of the lore is that Amazons are jungle dwelling women warriors, with stronger defensive rather than attack powers. They work with primarily renewable resources from plant materials, and are limited in their mining capabilities.

to be precise they are very good in evade if fully trained.

I have a bit better idea of a direction I'd like to head with the lore (which I'll elaborate on in a later post over the weekend), but I would like to seek input from others, and also do more research. @king_of_nowhere - do you have a source for the Mother Jungle/Father River story in the existing history page?

As I did not see him around here lately you might consider writing a PM to make him aware of this thread.

At the moment, as a start, I am thinking to make little poems or quotes from respected masters of their fields, and possibly for those masters to always take the names of Amazon River tributaries when they achieve mastery. As their culture is centred on the rivers and renewability, it makes sense that taking a river name would be a respectful way to ackowledge excellency of a master crafter, while acknowledging the past wisdom received and intended passing on of knowledge as a cycle.

poems, songlines, cites of former Masters of Art, as well as popular sayings are exactly what the lore is all about so +1. For the sources we should try to be as creative and different as we could be as the source of lore is the history of the tribe and defines their character. So +1 for the concept that Masters of their Profession may be awarded with the names of rivers.

Other possibilities are to use words from languages spoken in the (vast) region. As the orginal thoughts were for the tribe to be themed circa 1500, I think it might be better to seek for Tupian/Guaraní or Arawakan words if possible, as the Portguese and Spanish influences would not have been well established then.

Full agreement, good idea imho.

With regards to in game changes, I'd like to propose changing the following names:

  1. The "Warrior's Gathering" to "School of Spears" (or something else). The site is listed immediately next to the Warrior's Dwelling, and the two are easily misclicked - and Gatherings are expensive mistakes! I realised that for consistency with other tribes, the two buildings would remain adjacent in the medium buildings list, a rename is a way to address that.

with Nordfrieses comment +1 from my side.

  1. The gold digger worker/ digger's dwelling to gold panner/ panner's hut. This is a more accurate description based on the high water usage, and the low resources required for the building indicates a hut rather than a more permanent dwelling. Also, the term "gold digger" is used in some contexts as very pejorative, especially when applied to women, so is not ideal for a women's tribe.

+1 especially for the explanation given. It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things.

I realise that the two suggestions above will break save game compatibility, but as the tribe is listed as experimental, I think it's appropriate to consider the changes for v1.1 (at the latest).

(Edit: formatting, clarity)


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
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Posted at: 2021-08-27, 12:25

hessenfarmer wrote:

Alasia wrote:

  1. The gold digger worker/ digger's dwelling to gold panner/ panner's hut. This is a more accurate description based on the high water usage, and the low resources required for the building indicates a hut rather than a more permanent dwelling. Also, the term "gold digger" is used in some contexts as very pejorative, especially when applied to women, so is not ideal for a women's tribe.

+1 especially for the explanation given. It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things.

I like the water resource management very much. There can be more things like this. What i miss most is the combined wares circles, like the tavern "frisian" one which has so many intelligent programs and where you try to mix a combination of different ressouces. "It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things" This is my opinion on every idea I have face-smile.png on everything

@hessenfarmer: since the newest upgrade the atlantean trainingssite doesnt work anymore, it kicks out always the required soldiers, pls have the version before again.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2021-08-27, 13:23

the-x wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Alasia wrote:

  1. The gold digger worker/ digger's dwelling to gold panner/ panner's hut. This is a more accurate description based on the high water usage, and the low resources required for the building indicates a hut rather than a more permanent dwelling. Also, the term "gold digger" is used in some contexts as very pejorative, especially when applied to women, so is not ideal for a women's tribe.

+1 especially for the explanation given. It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things.

I like the water resource management very much. There can be more things like this. What i miss most is the combined wares circles, like the tavern "frisian" one which has so many intelligent programs and where you try to mix a combination of different ressouces. "It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things" This is my opinion on every idea I have face-smile.png on everything

Well, the topic about the uniqueness of each tribe was already discussed. If you like these complexity you could try the europeans tribe addon for example. The mechanics of the Amazons won't be changed. Anyhow this is unrelated to this thread.

@hessenfarmer: since the newest upgrade the atlantean trainingssite doesnt work anymore, it kicks out always the required soldiers, pls have the version before again.

This is off topic as well. the last change made there was already in b21 though, so without any further evidence (replay) provided in a related bug thread there is no chance to investigate this.


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Alasia
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Joined: 2020-04-26, 05:07
Posts: 10
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Location: Australia
Posted at: 2021-08-27, 14:22

hessenfarmer wrote:

Alasia wrote:

[snip] From the above the basis of the lore is that Amazons are jungle dwelling women warriors, with stronger defensive rather than attack powers. They work with primarily renewable resources from plant materials, and are limited in their mining capabilities.

to be precise they are very good in evade if fully trained.

The distinction is important, thanks. I have often wished for even more effective evade (against the Frisians especially) though! face-grin.png

[snip] @king_of_nowhere - do you have a source for the Mother Jungle/Father River story in the existing history page?

As I did not see him around here lately you might consider writing a PM to make him aware of this thread.

Done.

At the moment, as a start, I am thinking to make little poems or quotes from respected masters of their fields, and possibly for those masters to always take the names of Amazon River tributaries when they achieve mastery. As their culture is centred on the rivers and renewability, it makes sense that taking a river name would be a respectful way to ackowledge excellency of a master crafter, while acknowledging the past wisdom received and intended passing on of knowledge as a cycle.

poems, songlines, cites of former Masters of Art, as well as popular sayings are exactly what the lore is all about so +1. For the sources we should try to be as creative and different as we could be as the source of lore is the history of the tribe and defines their character. So +1 for the concept that Masters of their Profession may be awarded with the names of rivers.

I'm growing to like this concept more, as I think it is elegant and true to the tribe without needing lots of extra background-building lore.

Other possibilities are to use words from languages spoken in the (vast) region. As the orginal thoughts were for the tribe to be themed circa 1500, I think it might be better to seek for Tupian/Guaraní or Arawakan words if possible, as the Portguese and Spanish influences would not have been well established then.

Full agreement, good idea imho.

I'll keep researching then.

With regards to in game changes, I'd like to propose changing the following names:

  1. The "Warrior's Gathering" to "School of Spears" (or something else). [snip]

with Nordfrieses comment +1 from my side.

  1. The gold digger worker/ digger's dwelling to gold panner/ panner's hut. [snip]

+1 especially for the explanation given. It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things.

I realise that the two suggestions above will break save game compatibility, but as the tribe is listed as experimental, I think it's appropriate to consider the changes for v1.1 (at the latest).

Hessenfarmer, thank you for the feedback and pointers.

Nordfriese, thank you for your comment on that (awesome news!), and especially for all the work you put into the graphics - they really add to the feel of the tribe!


(formerly alasiaxx)

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Alasia
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Joined: 2020-04-26, 05:07
Posts: 10
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Australia
Posted at: 2021-08-27, 14:28

the-x wrote:

I like the water resource management very much. There can be more things like this. What i miss most is the combined wares circles, like the tavern "frisian" one which has so many intelligent programs and where you try to mix a combination of different ressouces. "It is always good to have a fresh opinion on things" This is my opinion on every idea I have face-smile.png on everything

Thanks for your thoughts on this. It's good to have weigh-in from very experienced players like yourself.


(formerly alasiaxx)

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1670
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Posted at: 2021-08-30, 11:59

Alasia wrote:

Hi all, I've been working on adding lore for the Amazons, and would welcome some consensus on the lore before trying to write more flavour text for the tribe. In an effort to collate the inputs I've found so far, please see the following

When I added new ship names, I used rivers draining into the Amazon Basin, which was in keeping with the existing ship names.

From the above the basis of the lore is that Amazons are jungle dwelling women warriors, with stronger defensive rather than attack powers. They work with primarily renewable resources from plant materials, and are limited in their mining capabilities.

I have a bit better idea of a direction I'd like to head with the lore (which I'll elaborate on in a later post over the weekend), but I would like to seek input from others, and also do more research. @king_of_nowhere - do you have a source for the Mother Jungle/Father River story in the existing history page?

Hi,

I haven't been active in the last year; I came up with the amazon concepts and mechanics, but they now belong to the community, so feel free to change as you wish without giving my opinion more weight than others.

that said, I had no sources for the lore, I just made up stuff on the spot. Again, if there is people with more organic ideas - and it looks like this is the case - they are welcome to implement them.


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