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Topic: Some Details in Balancing

GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2020-10-20, 09:01

Your pitch talk has no audio.


Busy indexing nil values

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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-10-20, 11:53

You have to set your Audio to 80-90% ; )


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 12:29

I played 38 in Singleplayer (not reliable) and 30 Games in Multiplayer:

With the old version without macrobalances:

Atlantean vs Barbarian: 10/10 Atlantean wins 0/10 Barbarian win

Atlantean vs Imperium: 10/10 Atlantean wins 0/10 Imperium win

Atlantean vs Frisian: 10/10 Atlantean wins 0/10 Frisian win

With the new version:

Atlantean vs Barbarian: 5/10 Atlantean wins 5/10 Barbarian win

Atlantean vs Imperium: 7/10 Atlantean wins 3/10 Imperium win

Atlantean vs Frisian: 5/10 Atlantean wins 5/10 Frisian win

Game Statistics in the old Version:

Barbarian always ahead in Units for a long time, Atlantean always ahead from the first combat

Game Statistics in the macrobalance Version:

Barbarians and Atlanteans now tend to start almost at the same time, if you play Labyrinth at the beginning with Atl, Atl are still a bit faster but not so much as the first 1 iron 1 coal instead of 2 iron 1 coal upgrade gets heavier weight.

-> Result:

  • All tribes tend now to a more adapted graph

  • Timing of the tribes is real interesting: You get a small increase in the beginning, whilst then depending on which strategy is played an higher increase and later an exponential increase which will decide any game, even defense bug of fortresses. Timing before was a late start at around 35-40 min then strictly linear without any changes, Barbarian always ahead of Atlantean, Atlantean always winning against Barbarian


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:03

So this proves that the changes would fit to your personal gamestyle and choice of maps. Which is just a very biased statistics based on a far too low empirical basis.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:06

I mean widelands should be personal gamestyle free, which also means the player should not be forced to level upgrade per upgrade for a hero?


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:17

Anyways Ive made 2 versions, one with very little changes only for balance and one that favors a lot of new Ideas that were presented. I like it very much once played and think to get a result why dont you test it?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:22

the-x wrote:

I mean widelands should be personal gamestyle free,

Which is exactly why the personal results of one single player do not provide a firm mathematical basis for a decision without the proper math to unbias it.

which also means the player should not be forced to level upgrade per upgrade for a hero?

  1. this is a different discussion. as it is not about balancing the tribes.
  2. as widelands is supposed to be an economical game this is the result of good economics. That is why economical superforces in the real world can afford super expensive weapons.

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:23

the-x wrote:

Anyways Ive made 2 versions, one with very little changes only for balance and one that favors a lot of new Ideas that were presented. I like it very much once played and think to get a result why dont you test it?

Because testing would not prove anything, as my testing would be as biased as yours.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 13:49

Exactly that is is ; ) maybe we can consider experience of played games or if i play against a player and always the same situation appears. Or how would we do it?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-10-28, 14:42

the-x wrote:

Exactly that is is ; ) maybe we can consider experience of played games or if i play against a player and always the same situation appears. Or how would we do it?

As already stated mathematical analysis would be the key. Experience isn't a good method to define the solution.


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