Topic: Rework Atlantean Crystal Mine
teppo |
Posted at: 2018-03-30, 20:16
It at least used to be possible: we have the "unless" rule (for experience of worker) and also "economy needs x". Top Quote |
teppo |
Posted at: 2018-04-14, 12:22
AI sometimes builds too much, and tends to have a shortage of wood. If AI gets one additional piece of code saying "if no un-depleted coal mines, set target trunk to zero, else set to forty", I cannot think of any.
Here out opinions differ. If you want to run the burners no matter what, then the easy solution is to put target trunk count to zero. This way, they would work exactly as not (unless economy does not need coal, which was excluded in these premises).
This does not prevent micromanagement, but makes it less profitable. If I really want to micromanage, I play FreeCIV or something. Micromanagement can be fun in small economies, but becomes a pain if there are lots of buildings (/cities, improvements, military units. etc). In Widelands I mostly like the economy to mind its business without constant supervision, and spend time trying to see future shortages before they become acute. I want the need to micromanagement go away. Since this change would not prevent you from micromanaging the sites as before, do you still oppose the idea? Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2018-04-14, 17:38
I do not completely oppose the idea. For example I would like the charcoal to be produced to relief the coal mines and the food industry. So in a way that charcoal burners have a higher economy setting like the coal mines. But I don't see the advantage in making them only working if the economy does not need wood. In this case you will have to set the inputs of all wood consumers to zero to get the coal for example to forge some axes for new lumberjacks. That would be more difficult to manage than to activate deactivate charcoal burners as needed. Except for the frisians they are that slow that I can't think of another usage for them as in situations where coal from mines is reallyun reachable or very short or just to burn down logpiles. In the first case you normally prepare for the high demand of logs by building foresters and lumberjacks. In the second case you could easily deactivate some charcoal burners if the logs come to a critical amount. Top Quote |
Tibor |
Posted at: 2018-04-14, 18:31
And if there are no coal mines? The rule would be for all tribes? Top Quote |
teppo |
Posted at: 2018-04-15, 09:46
If there is some wood available, trunk transportation to construction sites etc start more or less immediately after those have been created. This causes construction sited complete faster. Those construction are there for a reason, and having the buildings finished and contributing to economy benefits the player in some way.
Generally - not. "Economy does not need trunk", in this context, means that there is at least this many unallocated pieces of trunk in the economy. This does not translate to "zero consumers of wood in economy", which would be silly since burner is also a consumer of wood. Currently, if target is zero and there is unsatisfied demand, this counts as economy needing trunk. There probably could be an exception to this rule: Trunk target zero would then cause the burners to work no matter what. I have not looked how ugly that would be coding-wise.
Usually, that would not be necessary. Such cases would exist, unless the code would interpret "target count zero" for trunk differently from the other wares.
"No coal mines" is included in "no un-depleted coal mines". Why would this not be applied to each of the tribes? Top Quote |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2018-04-16, 21:05
That is probably no problem. I don't see anyway a way to keep that not separate. I guess fixing the bug just requires additional lines with "mine" with the attribute that they never stop the program. (percentage not 5% or 10% but 100%) Only problem which I see there: I don't know what would happen then with deeper mines if resources in the mountain get very low, shortly before the main vein is exhausted. But why shouldn't the mines be all right in this situation?
Really?
But maybe it is not balanced because of the bug: If barbarians get twice as much gold than atlanteans, they have a big advantage in collectors, don't they? Empire is in between with deep gold mines, and their surface mines are normal. At the other hand, the empire can extract a different amount of iron than other tribes. And the amounts of extractable coal are different between atlanteans and others. In addition, empire and barbarians get punished for using their efficient surface mines, as they are wasting resources in the mountain, in comparison to deeper mines. That's not good, because atlanteans seem to be slightly stronger already (in autocrat - my argument is not so good for peaceful collectors where barbarians are better : / ).
Yes, you should get 5% of the amount which would get in this case (or 10%, depending on the mine). Not 2 or 1 %...
Completely rewriting the code would be probably not be that hard, would it? If the bug with the extra resources gets fixed, one can also fix the depleted-mines-bug at the same time... The problem is that while barbarians get very little resources with depleted mines, empire and atlanteans get very very very little resources
Do you still know which one? I'm interested in that stuff...
Why? Don't let them consume wood and everything looks normal.
I'm also for reintroducing economy settings of trunks and similar wares...
Economy settings of trunks are different to economy settings which we currently have (Currently: If stock bigger than settings, stop producing. Trunks: If stock bigger than settings, consume trunks everywhere). We had a discussion about that before somewhere (minimal and maximal economy settings)...
Coalburners are usually inefficient...
At the other hand, one shouldn't be confronted with a lot of boring tasks (for example increasing economy settings of one ware to a very high number), so I like it often if Widelands is helpful Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |
GunChleoc Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2018-04-17, 04:03
Well, go ahead and do it yourself then Just kidding, but unless you have actually worked in this section of the code before, there is no way you can tell if it's hard or not. Those production programs are complicated, and believe it or not, I've mostly stayed away from them so far because of that.
I don't remember right now, but unless we already changed it for Build 19, it should be somewhere in this list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search Edited: 2018-04-17, 04:06
Busy indexing nil values Top Quote |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2018-04-17, 15:38
Maybe I should do that indeed. Or is anyone highly motivated to do it? I guess not. I'd just have to think about how to fix another bug: Some mines consume much faster if they are depleted.
I did some tribe modding some weeks ago, so I've got some experience with lua files.
Thanks. Build19 is already a version without economy settings of trunks, while build18 still has them. Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |
GunChleoc Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2018-04-18, 06:47
You'll have to search for "Fix released" bugs then - it also explains why I don't remember, because it's ancient history now. They don't show up in normal searches, so you'll need the advanced search https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bugs?advanced=1
If you'd like digging into this yourself, that would be good. I'm not a balancing expert - I mostly do UI. I can create a branch for you if you post a diff. Busy indexing nil values Top Quote |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2018-04-18, 13:38
Thx Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |