Topic: concentric circles win??

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king_of_nowhere Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2017-12-27, 22:58 WorldSavior wrote: I played two matches recently and in both the AI already had one elite-soldier in the second ring (build19), and I've been quite fast. I could not continue the first match (barbarians), as the green player blocked the port space under the yellow HQ with a castle It is possible that the AI was buffed significantly, I haven't played against it in one year now. Anyway, a single elite soldier is not insurmontable, as you can make 3-4. but if a player manages to block the port space, that's something you can't deal with. So, it is possible that improved AI made the map unwinnable with the newer trunks. I have no idea. Top Quote

WorldSavior Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10 Posts: 2094 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2017-12-28, 13:47 king_of_nowhere wrote: WorldSavior wrote: I played two matches recently and in both the AI already had one elite-soldier in the second ring (build19), and I've been quite fast. I could not continue the first match (barbarians), as the green player blocked the port space under the yellow HQ with a castle : / It is possible that the AI was buffed significantly, I haven't played against it in one year now. Well, it would surprise me if the trunk AI is stronger than the build 19 AI, no matter if on small or on big maps... Anyway, a single elite soldier is not insurmontable, as you can make 3-4. but if a player manages to block the port space, that's something you can't deal with. It was just bad luck. So, it is possible that improved AI made the map unwinnable with the newer trunks. I have no idea. In build19, I colonized the last ring now, and the white player is still far away, so it's indeed only a matter of time until I win. So I guess that the map is not unconquerable in trunk neither... Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote

LeightonMan Topic Opener Joined: 2017-05-19, 14:17 Posts: 41 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2017-12-29, 15:25 Thank you everyone, it seems my question is answered. I have made huge progress and established a tower on the second ring with two fully promoted soldiers. Unfortunately it took me so long that the AI had built a fortress and a tower and was able to deploy six highly, but not fully, trained soldiers in response to my attack. There is a lot I still have to learn! Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2017-12-29, 18:28 LeightonMan wrote: Thank you everyone, it seems my question is answered. I have made huge progress and established a tower on the second ring with two fully promoted soldiers. Unfortunately it took me so long that the AI had built a fortress and a tower and was able to deploy six highly, but not fully, trained soldiers in response to my attack. There is a lot I still have to learn! the thing about fully and highly promoted soldiers is that a fully promoted soldier can reliably kill a partially promoted one, then go back to heal. and a mostly promoted soldier is almost as expensive as a fully promoted one. problem is, if you attack with a single fully promoted soldier, it will tend to get swarmed and can't retreat in those conditions. The solution is to strategically time a second attack with one or two mooks that will draw the enemy soldiers away from the fully promoted one, who will now be able to retreat. This strategy is not 100% safe, but it is pretty reliable. So, with 2 fully promoted soldiers, it should be possible to kill, over time, the 6 enemy ones, unless you have bad luck Top Quote

LeightonMan Topic Opener Joined: 2017-05-19, 14:17 Posts: 41 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2017-12-30, 13:18 king_of_nowhere wrote: the thing about fully and highly promoted soldiers is that a fully promoted soldier can reliably kill a partially promoted one, then go back to heal. and a mostly promoted soldier is almost as expensive as a fully promoted one. problem is, if you attack with a single fully promoted soldier, it will tend to get swarmed and can't retreat in those conditions. The solution is to strategically time a second attack with one or two mooks that will draw the enemy soldiers away from the fully promoted one, who will now be able to retreat. This strategy is not 100% safe, but it is pretty reliable. So, with 2 fully promoted soldiers, it should be possible to kill, over time, the 6 enemy ones, unless you have bad luck I've replayed the game and I found the port space on the first ring in 45 minutes. I used the tactics you suggest to conquer the ring but it took over 3 hours (game time)! At the end I have a supply of wares and resources with 21 soldiers, about half of them trained to L2 evade. so I'm in good shape for the next stage. The problem is: there is no port space where the headquarters was!! There was a sentry near the headquarters and I defeated them both but the sentry was not sufficiently near to reveal the space so I built another sentry a bit closer. Now all the land is visible up to the coast but there is no port space. Is this a bug?? Top Quote

LeightonMan Topic Opener Joined: 2017-05-19, 14:17 Posts: 41 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2017-12-30, 14:05 LeightonMan wrote: Is this a bug?? Ah, I think I've found the problem. If the conquered territory does not extend much beyond the coast, the port space does not appear! Replacing the sentry with either a barrier or a tower does not work, but replacing it with a fortress reveals the space! Building a tower closer to the coast also works so I conclude that it is to do with territory over the sea. Perhaps it is this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1234725 I don't know anything about the code so I'm not sure. Top Quote

LeightonMan Topic Opener Joined: 2017-05-19, 14:17 Posts: 41 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2017-12-30, 15:51 LeightonMan wrote: LeightonMan wrote: Is this a bug?? Ah, I think I've found the problem. If the conquered territory does not extend much beyond the coast, the port space does not appear! Replacing the sentry with either a barrier or a tower does not work, but replacing it with a fortress reveals the space! Building a tower closer to the coast also works so I conclude that it is to do with territory over the sea. Perhaps it is this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1234725 I don't know anything about the code so I'm not sure. After a bit more investigation, I find that the problem also applies to mine sites. On the first ring I have no gold mine but building a sentry near where it should be reveals the building site. Top Quote

WorldSavior Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10 Posts: 2094 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2017-12-30, 18:25 By now I won my match in build 19 (with Atlanteans). Then I changed to trunk and barbarians and I've got the impression that the AI plays worse indeed. And the replays are broken... LeightonMan wrote: Thank you everyone, it seems my question is answered. You're welcome as always LeightonMan wrote: The problem is: there is no port space where the headquarters was!! There was a sentry near the headquarters and I defeated them both but the sentry was not sufficiently near to reveal the space so I built another sentry a bit closer. Now all the land is visible up to the coast but there is no port space. Is this a bug?? Well, maybe the port space is hidden by an object or you don't have enough territory to own it completely. As I told, it's also possible that the next opponent blocks this port spaces by castles. It is also possible that there is a kind of bug: Sometimes I had the impression that at a certain point should be a port space, but the fact that the border was too close to it was the result of the fact that the space was missing. I had to increase my territory more than I expected. Ports have objects called docks, maybe they need some space too, I don't know... Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2017-12-31, 03:26 WorldSavior wrote: As I told, it's also possible that the next opponent blocks this port spaces by castles. It's not possible, I made rough terrain in the external rings around the port space so that it would be impossible to block the port space with a castle. Possibly a tree sprouted near the port space, or you made a building too close to it. As for the mine disappearing and reappearing if you made a military site close, it could be a matter of visibility? You need some towers around to be able to see the map and use it, even if it is your land. If none of this apply, then it is probably a bug. Top Quote

LeightonMan Topic Opener Joined: 2017-05-19, 14:17 Posts: 41 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2017-12-31, 10:04 It may be a visibility issue but it is still a problem IMHO. The land is visible up to and including the coast but the two flag positions on the coast next to the mine building site are not visible. I can place a flag on the mine building site (there is a flag position there instead of the mine icon) so it is my land yet the mine site does not show up. As soon as I construct a military building within range, the site and the two flag positions appear. I can then dismantle the military building and the mine site remains visible. As to the port space, the coast is visible as are all the flag positions along the coast yet there is no port icon. I have run the game at 10.0x speed for three minutes and no trees appear. This means, of course, that it is possible to build on the port space without ever knowing it was there, making the game unwinnable Top Quote

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