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Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-04-02, 07:41

Exactly, my thinking, which is why I played the scenario, to get familiar with the tribe first.

I agree that space is not an issue on Langeneß, but it might be on other maps where space is tight.

And on another note, the building textures are indeed very dark, as has been mentioned before. We need to find some better textures. This one looks pretty good for brick: http://www.photos-public-domain.com/2011/01/04/red-brick-wall-texture/ the have good stuff in the walls category, and it's all Public Domain/CC0, so we can use them. They also have wood: http://www.photos-public-domain.com/?s=wooden+wall. For the roofs, we could use the new Barbarian textures (used e.g. by the Wood Hardener). Maybe also give the wooden walls a hint of player color, like in Scandinavian houses?

Edited: 2018-04-02, 07:47

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Tinker
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Posted at: 2018-04-02, 13:18

There are quite a lot of hints in the scenario to move building materials East. I did once escape, but that was a long time ago, AI and the enemy have improved since, as at that time I could build a ship or at least the sails earlier. Farms are not so much of a drawback, I mange with about 12 on most maps where Barbarians also need about 12. The rate of sea rise does seem a bit quicker now but it is a storm surge, still a little more time would be helpful, spending hours to fail by a couple of minutes is disheartning.

I played the Frisians (badly) in the current competition which is a bit tight on space for some Frisian buildings, biggest problems were micro managing soldiers, but at least there is a baseline to beat.

I was planning last year to work on graphics, until life got in the way, I have a lighter brick texture and was going to add more of a reed colour for the roofs, as well as my personal problems I never got the blend files, are they in the media repo now?


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-04-03, 13:50

Yes, blend files are in the media repo now.

I did move the wares more to the East as per instructions. but it's still very far to the west, because you expand very quickly at the end when routing the enemy. You also need to make sure that you have a hammer so that you can occupy the shipyard, because you start without a shipwright. If you don't have one in reserve, you need to build a Blacksmithy and wait for that too.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-04-03, 16:42

Uploaded all the blender files to the media repo this morning. I created my own brick-texture (included, hopefully); for the roof, cobblestones etc I used images from graphics/stock_sources/blender_resources/Materials/textures.

I need about as many farms with frisians as I need corn+blackroot farms when playing atlanteans, so I think barley growth isn´t too slow. The stormflood really is a bit fast currently, I´ll slow it down in my frisians-tweak branch.

You also need to make sure that you have a hammer so that you can occupy the shipyard, because you start without a shipwright. If you don't have one in reserve, you need to build a Blacksmithy and wait for that too.

For all tribes, the in-game ware encyclopedia says about the hammer: "Make sure you’ve always got some in reserve!"
Not having one is always a mistake…

@Tinker: Would you like to upload your frisians village starting condition to the frisians-tweak branch or attach it to the bug report?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-04-03, 20:06

Nordfriese wrote:

@Tinker: Would you like to upload your frisians village starting condition to the frisians-tweak branch or attach it to the bug report?

easiest way in my opionion would be that Nordfriese just does the review of the branch and it could be merged with trunk then. I didn't have time yet to do so but from a very short glance it looked ok to me.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-04-03, 21:04

Ah, I didn´t see Tinker´s branch before… I thought he hadn´t uploaded the frisians-village yet. I´ll just merge his branch into mine then face-smile.png


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Tinker
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Posted at: 2018-04-04, 10:10

I see it went in OK. I have a hardcore start condition as well but it is still in early development.

Just for information he is a she, but that is not easy to tell from a screen name. face-grin.png


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-04-05, 09:12

waves to fellow female

It would have been fine to just review Tinker's branch separately - smaller diffs are always good.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2018-04-05, 12:43

GunChleoc wrote:

I also had an economy impasse after building 1 of each, because I didn't have enough farms. I think I needed about 20, which is a lot.

Well spotted

Make the barley grow just a little bit faster?

That is a good idea, because in the early game you have to wait a lot until the first barley is harvested. But faster growth will not speed the production speed of the farm significantly up.

I suggested to do the latter and do it again. Imperial farms, corn farms and blackroot farms produce between 45 and 50 wares per hour, and barbarian wheat farms are the slow ones with ca. 36. But compared to frisian farms they are very fast, as those produce ca. 24. Makes not much sense.

hessenfarmer wrote:

I have done a lot of experiments and I think one way to get a better balance might be the build costs. I had reduced them for some of the buildings in a test branch and this showed very promising results. reason is it is not so much about cost it is about time to build the buildings if there is too much materials that need to be used for the building.

Changing only the build costs will not be enough for making a correct balance of the tribe...

Tinker wrote:

Farms are not so much of a drawback, I mange with about 12 on most maps where Barbarians also need about 12.

Cannot confirm that. Frisians need more farms than barbarians, especially if they need to use deep mines, which is a catastrophe for them.

Nordfriese wrote:

I need about as many farms with frisians as I need corn+blackroot farms when playing atlanteans, so I think barley growth isn´t too slow.

Then you are doing something wrong. Atlanteans need significantly less farms than Frisians, especially when Frisians need to use deep mines.

You also need to make sure that you have a hammer so that you can occupy the shipyard, because you start without a shipwright. If you don't have one in reserve, you need to build a Blacksmithy and wait for that too.

For all tribes, the in-game ware encyclopedia says about the hammer: "Make sure you’ve always got some in reserve!"

That's not the best encyclopedia hint of all time...

Not having one is always a mistake…

No, it's not. Why should it be?


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-04-05, 20:21

WorldSavior wrote:

That is a good idea, because in the early game you have to wait a lot until the first barley is harvested. But faster growth will not speed the production speed of the farm significantly up.

I suggested to do the latter and do it again. Imperial farms, corn farms and blackroot farms produce between 45 and 50 wares per hour, and barbarian wheat farms are the slow ones with ca. 36. But compared to frisian farms they are very fast, as those produce ca. 24. Makes not much sense.

Despite of that I don't like if somebody is denying sense in somebody elses work, the productivity of the barley farm is very low. But how do you calcualte your numbers. from the lua file it seems that the actual numbers are worse than that. According to the lua files an empire or atlantean cycle to plant and harvest a ware lasts 40 seconds plus walking, for the barbarians it lasts 70 seconds and for the frisians it lasts 260 seconds but produces two wares, so yes probabaly we should not speed up the growth but the production cycle of the farm.

hessenfarmer wrote:

I have done a lot of experiments and I think one way to get a better balance might be the build costs. I had reduced them for some of the buildings in a test branch and this showed very promising results. reason is it is not so much about cost it is about time to build the buildings if there is too much materials that need to be used for the building.

Changing only the build costs will not be enough for making a correct balance of the tribe...

As I wrote we should try to improve the balance and make it better, I never said it would be perfect. In my opinion there isn't one single correct balance. it is just a matter which measurement we decide to be the basis for balance. In my opinion the current tournament organised by einstein is a pretty good measurement for a tribes balance even though it is restricted by the influence of the map and the time when you do the measurements. But basically the ability to produce x soldiers per time unit is the key criterion for balancing in my eyes. Therefore I suggested the reduction of the buildcost to be able to build more buildings in the same amount of time. Surely we should have a look in the production cycles (like for the farms) as well. the good thing in focussing on competitive speed is we don't need to change anything in the innovative and well suited economy cycle of the frisians and we do not need to change the character of the tribe. So any observations and sugestions to improve the speed of the tribe up to a competitive level while keeping its character and economy should be very welcome. They surely are the more welcome the more they are formulated in a positive manner.

You also need to make sure that you have a hammer so that you can occupy the shipyard, because you start without a shipwright. If you don't have one in reserve, you need to build a Blacksmithy and wait for that too.

For all tribes, the in-game ware encyclopedia says about the hammer: "Make sure you’ve always got some in reserve!"

That's not the best encyclopedia hint of all time...

Not having one is always a mistake…

No, it's not. Why should it be?

Perhaps it is not always a mistake but there are a lot of occasions where you will be glad to have a hammer ready and not need to wait for one to be made.


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