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Topic: Widelands tournament 2017: subscriptions started (and random chit-chat)

einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
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Location: Poland
Posted at: 2017-03-24, 19:30

The simplest way is to make first "free tournament" with points calculated manually. How?: you pick bunch of players, who has started ELO ranking the same. Then they play multiple matches and send to one arbiter all results (who played, who won, replays). Last part is to calculate all the results with ELO system (and maybe another similar, discovered for Widelands, just to test) and see the results after all Tournament games. Then we will know:

  • if ELO system is good for Widelands too
  • if any other system is also good
  • if the calculations can be somehow automated
  • if they are good for players (feedback needed!)
  • if it is worth to put everything to the code

I like experiments face-smile.png What do you think?


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2017-03-24, 20:04

It's definitely a good idea to unleash your mathematical power on the thing before we spend a lot of time programming something that won't work.


Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-03-24, 23:01

trimard wrote:

I was more thinking at a system where you say at what time you expect to be able to play, and the system automatically tells you the players that might play at these hours (in order of priority those that have the closest elo to you, hence the ELO really don't close any opportunity). You click on the "propose match" option, you set the time, you propose a few maps. When the other agree with the time, he chose the map among those you proposed. When the time to plays comes around, if you're not present, you get malus points.

That seems actually a nice system, one that would help a lot people to find games. It would require adding plenty of new stuff to the internet part, though. If someone has the time and skill to do the coding, I wholeheartdly support it.

If we implement some ranking, I prefer to use the rules of chess, which has had a ranking going on for far longer than any videogame

I agree, we haven't discovered any better system yet IMO, but doesn't that have the same problem than with the LOL system? People won't be frustrated?

Well, that's kinda strange, because in chess I've never seen anyone frustrated with their ranking. ok, plenty of people who complain about losing points, but nobody who would ever think that not knowing one's ranking would be a good thing. even in internet chess, people are jealous of knowing their elo. In this case, though, I think that a visible ranking would put pressure on a newcomer. So my solution would be to have the ranking on the site, and the game not saying anything about it; so if you do not hang on the forum you don't even know you have a ranking, and if you do, you probably care enough that you'd rather know yours. Still, I am putting the cart way in front of the horses.

einstein13 wrote:

The simplest way is to make first "free tournament" with points calculated manually. How?: you pick bunch of players, who has started ELO ranking the same. Then they play multiple matches and send to one arbiter all results (who played, who won, replays). Last part is to calculate all the results with ELO system (and maybe another similar, discovered for Widelands, just to test) and see the results after all Tournament games.

Actually it's not so simple, because it is not simple to get people to play many games at all. look, i'm trying to start a tournament and i only found six people to participate, including me.

Anyway, I think the best way to assign a rating (taking into account the small numer of games) is to expand on what I used a couple pages back. So I calculated the ranking for the first tournament by fitting the ranking for all players to mathc the expected score with the actual score. Now we have 16 people with rating, and i think in many cases it is actually reasonably accurate. So those 16 people will keep that rating and play with it. In future tournaments, new players will be introduced in the same way, giving them a rating equal to the performance. So if a rated player playes against an unrated player, he won't know how much he gained or lost until after the end of the tournament, when the unrated player wiill be ranked retroactively. It is the simplest way because it does not require to get people to do anything special; every time a tournament is hosted, the ranking is assigned or calculated in a straightforward manner


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trimard
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Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
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Posted at: 2017-03-25, 18:11

Cool face-smile.png

I think the date system, that allows you to know who might be able to play at these time would be the most important factor. The rest can be built on top of it. Allowing us to consider the different options of ranking system we have.

Well if someone want to code something in the like, that would be great, but I think I'll have time this summer, might be a cool small project face-smile.png The website is in python + jinja right?


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2017-03-26, 12:01

trimard wrote:

Well if someone want to code something in the like, that would be great, but I think I'll have time this summer, might be a cool small project face-smile.png The website is in python + jinja right?

The website is in python + Django. See also: The Website


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2017-03-26, 20:14

Maybe I'm going to contribute to the ranking discussion later...

By the way, it's a pity that the tournament will rather not exist. I found out that I'm not going to have enough time in june and july, so I should rather not participate. But the tournament would be a great thing and I would love it to watch every replay face-smile.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-03-28, 02:23

Well, as everyone was expecting, there will be no tournament since too few people signed up. if we had been, like, 10, I would have extended the deadline, but with 6, it's not worth to even try. I will propose a tournament again after summer.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2017-03-28, 18:50

That's sad. But what can one do if the number of interested people is so surprisingly low...


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
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Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 226
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Posted at: 2017-03-29, 19:06

I will propose a tournament again after summer.

Why not during summer? Is that not the period when there is the most players available? Or is it the reverse?


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-03-29, 23:50

trimard wrote:

I will propose a tournament again after summer.

Why not during summer? Is that not the period when there is the most players available? Or is it the reverse?

Summer is a period when many people go in vacation and cannot play regularly. It's like christmas, really. For every guy who is cozy at home with plenty of free time, there is another one who is away with his significant one and can't spend an evening at the pc. It would be real hard to get schedules to meet.


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