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Topic: Searching opponent (fjords, tournament-like)

einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1100
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One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2017-01-14, 00:51

king_of_nowhere wrote:

No0815 wrote:

(...)

Ah, that's a mistake most people do; confusing having many wares with having a good economy. So. Very. Wrong.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with that. Everything depends on many factors. Yes, sometimes more wares means worse economy. And yes, sometimes more wares means better economy.

I remember one game, 1 vs 1, The Nile map. I like to make there huge economy. It took hours to set up first working Trainings Camp. The enemy already had fully promoted soldiers when we met. But I won. How? I had much more wares to spend. Also much more territory to go back and regroup (two lines of fortresses on the front). More time we played, I got stronger and stronger. Finally amount of my wares stopped increasing, but my soldier power blown up. I manage to create as many level 10 soldiers as he had, 3 times faster, but I started 3 times later face-tongue.png . Amount of wares WAS good indicator then! I had plenty of everything (food, ores), but not enough time to build everything in a short time.

Oh... yes... I forgot, that I had terrible marble problem. That is major problem for Empire. It needs plenty of them to build an empire face-grin.png

Having wares is actually the opposite of having a good economy. if your economy is good, then all your wares are turned into soldiers. you should have very little wares.

If you think about real life: yes. If the factory has to store many wares, it costs. No storage (but constant production!) means less costs, more benefits. But Widelands storages don't cost at all! The major cost in the game are roads. Fast roads means better chances to win.

And about wares: if you have little of them, you have to build all the building types to increase soldiers production (more farms, mills, bakeries, mines, smeltings, smithes). But if you have plenty of resources, you can easier change them into level 10 soldiers. But not using the economy this way is a waste of time and resources.

So it depends on what type of resources you have and what you are doing with them. But storing them is not a bad idea. But as you said: economy must be balanced. And from my point of view, only a few people can build up a balanced economy (for them: less wares = better economy). Much more players can't do that. So they try to store some wares and find balance. For those people more wares means stronger economy.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
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Lokimaros
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Joined: 2016-10-21, 17:51
Posts: 49
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
Posted at: 2017-01-14, 04:29

No0815 wrote:

I'd like to add another question: Are there any requirements for hosting a game? I didn't give it much of a thought so far since it isn't mentioned in the wiki and I can run Widelands at x10 speed without problem, though on the other hand it occasionally even lags a bit at normal speed. My laptop is pretty dated and rather weak.

Your router and firewall must be open on port 7394, and direct external traffic to that port to the machine hosting the game (port forwarding). Then, once you've loaded the map, you must select your colour or spectator, select the win condition, and wait for your opponents, and then start. You can communicate like in the forum, but all communication is only game wide, not on the forum as well.

There is also port 7395 and port 7396, but I don't know what they are for. The Wiki mentions opening port 7396 instead of 7394, but that is either wrong or maybe you just need to open either one or the other. I know 7394 works.

Edited: 2017-01-14, 04:30

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1457
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One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2017-01-14, 12:58

einstein13 wrote:

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with that. Everything depends on many factors. Yes, sometimes more wares means worse economy. And yes, sometimes more wares means better economy.

ok, point taken, I oversimplified the matter. But I think we can safely agree that an economy that makes lots of spare wares and has no way of consuming them is not an efficient economy. Our game on nile was a different case because you made wares, then you made new buildings that used those wares and turned them to soldiers. But nile is a very big map. fjords has limited space, and there's no room to make new buildings to use the wares. And I think we can also agree on my more general point, that one cannot claim that he had a better economy just because he had more wares, especially when the opponent was growing in power faster than him


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No0815
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Joined: 2016-05-01, 14:52
Posts: 49
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2017-01-14, 17:08

My apologies for my outburst yesterday. The hint about my economy really triggered me and watching the replay with that focus was way more than I can take. As I already said (or did I?), my frustration tolerance is rather limited for the time being. I definitely shouldn't play against another human in the foreseeable future, for both my sanity (or what is left of it) and not wanting to hurt someone else, potentially.

If my economy really was that bad (or at least not that good), there is nothing left major enough that I did right. I already knew beforehand that I would have trouble if I lost the game. I trusted in that it would be easier if I could see what I can learn from mistakes and that most of what I did still would have been right. But all I have left now is confusion. My certainty about how to play this game has been shattered to pieces. Again. All my enthusiasm and motivation stem from knowing what I do, be it because I know how to play or how to approach to learn it.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1457
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One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2017-01-14, 19:00

i never said your economy was bad. it was rather good actually. worldsavior's economy was simply better. if your economy was crap, you'd have lost in the first two hours instead of lasting for 5. I lost in the first two hours and even my mistakes weren't that big.

EDIT: in fact, I could dare to say that there are two aspects to an economy: how much stuff you produce, and how much of it you can consume, and even how fast you can make your economy. so you scored very high in the first point, and moderate in the second two, while worldsavior scored high on all three accounts. and having seen the replays from the tournament, I'd say you played better than most people did. worldsavior played better than anyone i've seen but me, except for the part of setting up the economy fast, where he played better - I made a really great economy in that game, but I was slow and I risked losing in the early game for that.

Edited: 2017-01-14, 19:08

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3073
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One Elder of Players
Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2017-01-16, 21:01

No0815: Just a quick comment from me without having followed anything closely here: Please don't be discouraged. Worldsaviour is one of our best players, so losing against him doesn't mean that you play badly. Maybe the two of us should play a game some time, because you will have a really good chance of winning then!


Busy indexing nil values

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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1351
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One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2017-01-27, 17:46

No0815 wrote:

My apologies for my outburst yesterday.

No big problem

I definitely shouldn't play against another human in the foreseeable future, for both my sanity (or what is left of it) and not wanting to hurt someone else, potentially.

Why not? The probability that you will be hurt again is very low face-wink.png But yes, you could hurt someone else very easily face-grin.png (but not if that person doesn't care about loosing, of course, and that's often the case)

All my enthusiasm and motivation stem from knowing what I do, be it because I know how to play or how to approach to learn it.

Well, you know pretty much how to play this game, even though it was your first online-match and by this i can conclude that you learn really fast...

GunChleoc wrote:

No0815: Just a quick comment from me without having followed anything closely here: Please don't be discouraged. Worldsaviour is one of our best players, so losing against him doesn't mean that you play badly. Maybe the two of us should play a game some time, because you will have a really good chance of winning then!

Thanks :-) And be careful of that player face-grin.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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