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Topic: Some comments

Sierk
Joined: 2009-08-23, 12:46
Posts: 1
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Just found this site
Location: Netherlands
Posted at: 2009-08-23, 13:30

Hi all,

Congratulations on making this great game! I have been playing the Settlers since it first came out, and Settlers II (Gold Edition) is my favorite game of all time. I am very happy to see this project is up and running. I the last few days I have played a few maps with the Barbarians in single player mode, and I have made a list of comments, remarks and suggestions. I could not find a list of features that are still to come, so some of my suggestions might already on their way.

I have divided them in plus (+) and minus (-) points. Some of the points might not be clear because I try to write them down in few words. Please ask me if you want me to expand on any of the points.

(-) I had some problems with getting my deep mines occupied, even though I waited till the miner was upgraded. It happened a few times that a chief miner was present, but not a miner, and as a result nothing was being produced.

(+) I like the feature that no stock is produced when the game thinks you already have enough. But it would be even better if for every item we can set a number such that production must start when the stock goes below that number.

(-) It is confusing when a building is not producing something even though it has the required material to work with. Perhaps a message like 'ON HOLD' can be displayed in that case, on the place where it now says '0 %'.

(-) I find it very confusing how you can burn down your military buildings without losing the land that they kept occupied. Even more, it can happen that some sort of black fog enters you borders, preventing you from building on that land, after you burned down the military buildings that occupied it. This happens when there are no other (none military) buildings in the area.

(-) I find it annoying that when I want to build a road consisting 3 steps in direction north-east, followed by 1 step south-east, this road is automatically short-cut to a road consisting of 2 steps north-east, and 1 step east. There are situations where I need to do this, for example when I want to plant a flag at the top corner. I can still do this now, by planting the flag before I continue the road, but I would like it if I could turn off this feature of automatically short-cutting roads.

(+) A big plus point is the feature that you don't lose the stock that a road-carrier is carrying when you destroy the road he is walking on.

(-) I find the area that geologists work in when you call them to a flag too big, I would prefer it was more centralized around the flag that they are called to.

(-) It would be good if it is automatically prevented that two lumberjacks "target" the same tree for cutting it down.

(-) A very advanced feature that I have often desired while playing Settlers II is that you can select a target area for your lumberjacks where you want them to start with cutting down the trees. So after selecting this option from the lumberjack's hut window, you would select a spot on the map, within the reach of the building, and the lumberjack would start clearing the trees around that spot.

(-) Since this game does not have a message options like Settlers II has, that gives warnings for particular events, it might be useful to make it optional to have Quarries (and Fisher's Huts) automatically burn down after they run out of stone (or fish).

(-) The minimap I find too small, but I guess that's why it's called mini. Perhaps there is already an option to enlarge it, or select a larger map, that I have not found.

(-) When you click on a building, it would be good if the building window opens NEXT to it, in stead of on top of it, covering the building out of sight.

(-) When you open the window for a flag or new building, by clicking on the flag or the location where you want to build a building, this window opens in the center of the screen. By itself this is ok. But then if you close this window by right-clicking on it, your cursor stays in the center of the screen, instead of moving back to the flag or building spot on the map that you clicked on in the first place.

(-) I miss the option to send scouts outside your borders to discover the lands around you. I always found this feature very useful.

(-) All the maps that I have played so far had very few spots where you can actually put down a building. Especially for the bigger buildings there was always a shortage of spots. This does provide an interesting challenge. But compared to Settlers II I find that there is too little place to build the bigger buildings.

(-) When the option to automatically start building a road after you put down a new buidling is turned on, I would prefer it that the cursor starts at the flag of that building, and not the building itself. This offers the optimal conditions to either start building a road, in any direction from that flag, or directly click on the flag to stop building the road.

(-) I didn't notice an option to pause the game, like by hitting spacebar in Settlers II. Since playing a map can take a long time I think it's absolutely necessary to have the option to pause the game, so that you can get a drink or visit the toilet every now and then.

(-) Sometimes the % of a building (that you see by hitting the 's' key) is flickering very fast between different percentages.

(-) At some point my Inn was continually low on Beer, and even though I had built 4 Mini-breweries, that were full with water and wheat, at least one of them didn't produce anything, while it was indicationg 100% productivity.

(-) I would prefer it that when I click on a road, the cursor in the road window is not placed on the big X, where you click to destroy the road. This way you prevent that by accidently double-clicking on a road you destroy it. Compary with the way this works in Settlers II.

(+) Another big plus point is the feature that when you destroy a road or building, your workers don't walk around the map randomly, but go direclty to the nearest flag, and follow the road to a headquarter building.

(-) In the overview of all existing buildings, the Iron Ore Mine is not placed on the correct alphabetical position, but between Micro-Brewery and Quarry.

(-) I did not notice a short-cut to go directly to your Headquarters, like the key "h" does in Settlers II.

(+) A very good feature is the Game Keeper, so that you will never run out of meat.

(-) Even though I had 0 axes, and my Metal works was full with Iron and Wood, and it indicated a 100% productivity, nothing was produced by it for a long time.

Edited: 2009-08-23, 13:36

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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
Posts: 829
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2009-08-23, 16:02

Hi Sierk,

first of all I like to remind: Widelands is a work in progress game - for some reasons I wouldn't even say it's in beta, but in alpha state. face-wink.png

And I think you used Build13, not current development version, right? I think else the list would have been a bit smaller face-wink.png

(-) I had some problems with getting my deep mines occupied, even though I waited till the miner was upgraded. It happened a few times that a chief miner was present, but not a miner, and as a result nothing was being produced.

This is a known bug. No fix has yet been implemented.

(+) I like the feature that no stock is produced when the game thinks you already have enough. But it would be even better if for every item we can set a number such that production must start when the stock goes below that number.

Such a user interface is already available in current development builds.

(-) It is confusing when a building is not producing something even though it has the required material to work with. Perhaps a message like 'ON HOLD' can be displayed in that case, on the place where it now says '0 %'.

Sounds like a good idea. Would fix another bug where +/- were switching on and on face-smile.png

(-) I find it very confusing how you can burn down your military buildings without losing the land that they kept occupied. Even more, it can happen that some sort of black fog enters you borders, preventing you from building on that land, after you burned down the military buildings that occupied it. This happens when there are no other (none military) buildings in the area.

This is a feature not a bug - I am sure you suggest it to work like it does in the Settlers, but Widelands is no Settlers clone! face-smile.png

Let me explain why we handle the land ownership like that, with two simple logical questions:

  • Why should you loose land as long as nobody else has any military influence on it?
  • Why should you see land (even if you still own it) if there is nobody that watches it?

Of course you can make it different and you can discuss a lot on several points, however we developers like it that way... face-smile.png

By the way: land that you haven't any military influence on anymore (the case if you remove the militarysites) will directly be conquered by an enemy if he builds militarysites near it (like as if it was not owned by anybody).

(-) I find it annoying that when I want to build a road consisting 3 steps in direction north-east, followed by 1 step south-east, this road is automatically short-cut to a road consisting of 2 steps north-east, and 1 step east. There are situations where I need to do this, for example when I want to plant a flag at the top corner. I can still do this now, by planting the flag before I continue the road, but I would like it if I could turn off this feature of automatically short-cutting roads.

Sounds like a good idea, indeed.

(+) A big plus point is the feature that you don't lose the stock that a road-carrier is carrying when you destroy the road he is walking on.

Aye face-wink.png

(-) I find the area that geologists work in when you call them to a flag too big, I would prefer it was more centralized around the flag that they are called to.

Another known issue. Actually the geologist should first of all search at all places near the flag and finally go further outside. - No fix yet implemented.

(-) It would be good if it is automatically prevented that two lumberjacks "target" the same tree for cutting it down.

Known bug - no fix yet implemented.

(-) A very advanced feature that I have often desired while playing Settlers II is that you can select a target area for your lumberjacks where you want them to start with cutting down the trees. So after selecting this option from the lumberjack's hut window, you would select a spot on the map, within the reach of the building, and the lumberjack would start clearing the trees around that spot.

Was this possible in Settlers or Settlers2? Can't remember it.

However such a feature is already planned. face-smile.png

(-) Since this game does not have a message options like Settlers II has, that gives warnings for particular events, it might be useful to make it optional to have Quarries (and Fisher's Huts) automatically burn down after they run out of stone (or fish).

Actually it has a message box in current development build face-wink.png - anyway only construction of new warehouses and found resources by the geologist are yet heandled via that interface. It will surely be improved in future.

(-) The minimap I find too small, but I guess that's why it's called mini. Perhaps there is already an option to enlarge it, or select a larger map, that I have not found.

No unfortunally not. Known bug - no fix yet implemented.

(-) When you click on a building, it would be good if the building window opens NEXT to it, in stead of on top of it, covering the building out of sight.

Hmm I often found it anoying, but never thought of such a feature face-grin.png - good idea, indeed.

(-) When you open the window for a flag or new building, by clicking on the flag or the location where you want to build a building, this window opens in the center of the screen. By itself this is ok. But then if you close this window by right-clicking on it, your cursor stays in the center of the screen, instead of moving back to the flag or building spot on the map that you clicked on in the first place.

Hm do not see a bug in it... Actually I would find it anoying to have the mouse jump that far - Altough this might be okay for smaller steps like moving the mouse over the menu if you click on a flag, I generally want to have control over the mouse and do not want to let a program control it.

(-) I miss the option to send scouts outside your borders to discover the lands around you. I always found this feature very useful.

Future feature not yet implemented.

(-) All the maps that I have played so far had very few spots where you can actually put down a building. Especially for the bigger buildings there was always a shortage of spots. This does provide an interesting challenge. But compared to Settlers II I find that there is too little place to build the bigger buildings.

That really depens on the maps and so on the creator of them. I for example like maps that are like you just described. So of you dislike such maps, best try those that are not created by me (Nasenbaer) face-smile.png

(-) When the option to automatically start building a road after you put down a new buidling is turned on, I would prefer it that the cursor starts at the flag of that building, and not the building itself. This offers the optimal conditions to either start building a road, in any direction from that flag, or directly click on the flag to stop building the road.

True - I hate that as well.

(-) I didn't notice an option to pause the game, like by hitting spacebar in Settlers II. Since playing a map can take a long time I think it's absolutely necessary to have the option to pause the game, so that you can get a drink or visit the toilet every now and then.

May I suggest "RTFM" face-wink.png (if you do not know it google it face-wink.png )

(-) Sometimes the % of a building (that you see by hitting the 's' key) is flickering very fast between different percentages.

as written above this is a known bug - if we implement the feature you suggest (with "on hold") this will disappear as well. Anyhow it should get fixed in future, but isn't yet.

(-) At some point my Inn was continually low on Beer, and even though I had built 4 Mini-breweries, that were full with water and wheat, at least one of them didn't produce anything, while it was indicationg 100% productivity.

Will be less problematic once you use the newer builds, where you can set a target quantity for each ware - the problem in Build13 was, that those wares are too late produced because you have no in stock.

(-) I would prefer it that when I click on a road, the cursor in the road window is not placed on the big X, where you click to destroy the road. This way you prevent that by accidently double-clicking on a road you destroy it. Compary with the way this works in Settlers II.

Didn't it work the same at the settlers? However, we should think about this, yes.

(+) Another big plus point is the feature that when you destroy a road or building, your workers don't walk around the map randomly, but go direclty to the nearest flag, and follow the road to a headquarter building.

But only if one is in sight face-wink.png - if they can not find one in vision range, they will run around like mad and finally die.

(-) In the overview of all existing buildings, the Iron Ore Mine is not placed on the correct alphabetical position, but between Micro-Brewery and Quarry.

That's because it is named "ore mine" in game logic. However things are changed in current Builds anyways, as buildings are now sorted by logical groups (like military, mines, etc.)

(-) I did not notice a short-cut to go directly to your Headquarters, like the key "h" does in Settlers II.

Again: RTFM face-wink.png

(+) A very good feature is the Game Keeper, so that you will never run out of meat.

face-smile.png

(-) Even though I had 0 axes, and my Metal works was full with Iron and Wood, and it indicated a 100% productivity, nothing was produced by it for a long time.

as well an issue of target quantities. This should be fixed in current builds.

So thank you for your feedback. It would be great, if you could post those things I wrote something like "haven't thought about that" or similiar face-smile.png - on our bugtracker:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=40163&atid=427221

else this might get lost under all the other posts.

Cheers

Nasenbaer


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sigra
Joined: 2009-03-05, 19:02
Posts: 130
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Location: Orsa
Posted at: 2009-08-23, 23:17

Sierk wrote: I could not find a list of features that are still to come

We have our feature request tracker on sourceforge. We also have a bug tracker there.

Sierk wrote: (-) I had some problems with getting my deep mines occupied, even though I waited till the miner was upgraded. It happened a few times that a chief miner was present, but not a miner, and as a result nothing was being produced.

miner/master miner mixed up after enhancing to deep Mine [Upgraded mine is not supp>Sierk wrote:

I could not find a list of features that are still to come

We have our feature request tracker on sourceforge. We also have a bug tracker there.

Sierk wrote: (-) I had some problems with getting my deep mines occupied, even though I waited till the miner was upgraded. It happened a few times that a chief miner was present, but not a miner, and as a result nothing was being produced.

miner/master miner mixed up after enhancing to deep Mine Upgraded mine is not supplied with new Miner with warehouse Throw personal out of a building Downgrade skilled workers when possible

Sierk wrote: (-) I find it very confusing how you can burn down your military buildings without losing the land that they kept occupied. Even more, it can happen that some sort of black fog enters you borders, preventing you from building on that land, after you burned down the military buildings that occupied it. This happens when there are no other (none military) buildings in the area.

You will lose the land if someone else takes it. The land is fogged if you have no person that sees it for you. You can not build on land that you do not see, simply because you do not even know if you still own it.

(-) I find it annoying that when I want to build a road consisting 3 steps in direction north-east, followed by 1 step south-east, this road is automatically short-cut to a road consisting of 2 steps north-east, and 1 step east. There are situations where I need to do this, for example when I want to plant a flag at the top corner. I can still do this now, by planting the flag before I continue the road, but I would like it if I could turn off this feature of automatically short-cutting roads.

The current behaviour ensures that each road that exists in the game takes the optimal path through the nodes that it occupies. Your suggestion would remove this invariant. I can only suggest that you place the flag there if you want a flag there. It should be as easy as placing it afterwards.

(+) A big plus point is the feature that you don't lose the stock that a road-carrier is carrying when you destroy the road he is walking on.

...unless the worker himself gets lost of course.

(-) I find the area that geologists work in when you call them to a flag too big, I would prefer it was more centralized around the flag that they are called to.

The planned solution is LandUsagePlans. It should be possible to mark an area that should be surveyed, and geologists should come and do it.

(-) It would be good if it is automatically prevented that two lumberjacks "target" the same tree for cutting it down.

Yes, there should be a feature that lumberjacks claim a tree before walking to it.

(-) A very advanced feature that I have often desired while playing Settlers II is that you can select a target area for your lumberjacks where you want them to start with cutting down the trees. So after selecting this option from the lumberjack's hut window, you would select a spot on the map, within the reach of the building, and the lumberjack would start clearing the trees around that spot.

LandUsagePlans again. It should be opssible to set the plan for an area to someting that requires trees to be removed, and the lumberjacks should prefer to chop trees there. This is better than your suggestion to set it per lumberjack.

(-) I miss the option to send scouts outside your borders to discover the lands around you. I always found this feature very useful.

LandUsagePlans again. It should be possible to mark an area that should be explored, and explorers should come and do it.

(-) When the option to automatically start building a road after you put down a new buidling is turned on, I would prefer it that the cursor starts at the flag of that building, and not the building itself. This offers the optimal conditions to either start building a road, in any direction from that flag, or directly click on the flag to stop building the road.

This might be a usability bug that could be easy to fix.

(-) I didn't notice an option to pause the game, like by hitting spacebar in Settlers II. Since playing a map can take a long time I think it's absolutely necessary to have the option to pause the game, so that you can get a drink or visit the toilet every now and then.

toggle pause with Pause key (just use !PageDown/!PageUP for now)

(-) I would prefer it that when I click on a road, the cursor in the road window is not placed on the big X, where you click to destroy the road. This way you prevent that by accidently double-clicking on a road you destroy it. Compary with the way this works in Settlers II. This might be a usability bug that could be easy to fix. The question is only where the mouse cursor should be placed. Maybe the roadbuilding tab icon (above the remove road icon)?

(-) I did not notice a short-cut to go directly to your Headquarters, like the key "h" does in Settlers II.

That is of course the Home key.lied with new Miner with warehouse](https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2356420&group_id=40163&atid=427221) Throw personal out of a building Downgrade skilled workers when possible

Sierk wrote: (-) I find it very confusing how you can burn down your military buildings without losing the land that they kept occupied. Even more, it can happen that some sort of black fog enters you borders, preventing you from building on that land, after you burned down the military buildings that occupied it. This happens when there are no other (none military) buildings in the area.

You will lose the land if someone else takes it. The land is fogged if you have no person that sees it for you. You can not build on land that you do not see, simply because you do not even know if you still own it.

(-) I find it annoying that when I want to build a road consisting 3 steps in direction north-east, followed by 1 step south-east, this road is automatically short-cut to a road consisting of 2 steps north-east, and 1 step east. There are situations where I need to do this, for example when I want to plant a flag at the top corner. I can still do this now, by planting the flag before I continue the road, but I would like it if I could turn off this feature of automatically short-cutting roads.

The current behaviour ensures that each road that exists in the game takes the optimal path through the nodes that it occupies. Your suggestion would remove this invariant. I can only suggest that you place the flag there if you want a flag there. It should be as easy as placing it afterwards.

(+) A big plus point is the feature that you don't lose the stock that a road-carrier is carrying when you destroy the road he is walking on.

...unless the worker himself gets lost of course.

(-) I find the area that geologists work in when you call them to a flag too big, I would prefer it was more centralized around the flag that they are called to.

The planned solution is LandUsagePlans. It should be possible to mark an area that should be surveyed, and geologists should come and do it.

(-) It would be good if it is automatically prevented that two lumberjacks "target" the same tree for cutting it down.

Yes, there should be a feature that lumberjacks claim a tree before walking to it.

(-) A very advanced feature that I have often desired while playing Settlers II is that you can select a target area for your lumberjacks where you want them to start with cutting down the trees. So after selecting this option from the lumberjack's hut window, you would select a spot on the map, within the reach of the building, and the lumberjack would start clearing the trees around that spot.

LandUsagePlans again. It should be possible to set the plan for an area to someting that requires trees to be removed, and the lumberjacks should prefer to chop trees there. For example, it should be possible to place buildings where there are trees and stones, and your lumberjacks and stonecutters should remove those trees and stones as soon as possible, then the builder and building materials arrive. This is better than your suggestion to set it per lumberjack.

(-) I miss the option to send scouts outside your borders to discover the lands around you. I always found this feature very useful.

LandUsagePlans again. It should be possible to mark an area that should be explored, and explorers should come and do it.

(-) When the option to automatically start building a road after you put down a new buidling is turned on, I would prefer it that the cursor starts at the flag of that building, and not the building itself. This offers the optimal conditions to either start building a road, in any direction from that flag, or directly click on the flag to stop building the road.

This might be a usability bug that could be easy to fix.

(-) I didn't notice an option to pause the game, like by hitting spacebar in Settlers II. Since playing a map can take a long time I think it's absolutely necessary to have the option to pause the game, so that you can get a drink or visit the toilet every now and then.

toggle pause with Pause key (just use PageDown/PageUP for now)

(-) I would prefer it that when I click on a road, the cursor in the road window is not placed on the big X, where you click to destroy the road. This way you prevent that by accidently double-clicking on a road you destroy it. Compary with the way this works in Settlers II.

This might be a usability bug that could be easy to fix. The question is only where the mouse cursor should be placed. Maybe the roadbuilding tab icon (above the remove road icon)?

(-) I did not notice a short-cut to go directly to your Headquarters, like the key "h" does in Settlers II.

That is of course the Home key.

Edited: 2009-08-23, 23:18

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sigra
Joined: 2009-03-05, 19:02
Posts: 130
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Location: Orsa
Posted at: 2009-08-24, 00:03

Sierk wrote: (-) When the option to automatically start building a road after you put down a new buidling is turned on, I would prefer it that the cursor starts at the flag of that building, and not the building itself. This offers the optimal conditions to either start building a road, in any direction from that flag, or directly click on the flag to stop building the road.

Fixed in revsion 4489.


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sigra
Joined: 2009-03-05, 19:02
Posts: 130
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Location: Orsa
Posted at: 2009-08-24, 01:19

Sierk wrote: (-) I would prefer it that when I click on a road, the cursor in the road window is not placed on the big X, where you click to destroy the road. This way you prevent that by accidently double-clicking on a road you destroy it.

Fixed in revision 4490.


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a_settler
Joined: 2009-09-27, 21:06
Posts: 16
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2009-09-27, 22:11

One more bug I have observed: I often observe wares that have been made from Iron recently, like weapons and tools, that they aren transported back and forth between two flags near a warehouse. The only way to bring these wares into the stock is to delete the road and get the transporter to the stock this way. Then when the transporter has left his section I rebuild the way to keep on traffic. Immidiately after the transporter with that tool or weapon enters the warehouse a new soldier or worker lefts the warehouse. I just downloaded the actual build 14 and installed it and will see if this still happens.

Edited: 2009-09-27, 22:14

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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
Posts: 829
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2009-09-27, 23:08

jepp that bug was basically fixed. it might be, that it happens for a short moment(as the fix is "basic" face-wink.png ), but it shouldn't last long...

So if you are able to reproduce the bug, best post a bugreport face-smile.png


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