Topic: Island Capture and ships.
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se5a Topic Opener
Joined: 2011-11-26, 10:04
Posts: 28  Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2013-10-03, 21:57
This is simular to what's already suggested here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1191296 but builds on it a little. when a ship anchors at a port suitable location, the ship would then become a 'fortress' building from which the player can then attack enemy military buildings within range. The ship could also in turn be attacked by the enemy player. if that is won, should the ship sink/burn, or be captured? I'm thinking that this should be a separate expedition to the current port building one. edit: oh looks like _aD posted it there too, I didn't have an account and CBF making one. Edited: 2013-10-03, 21:59
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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 08:42
Posts: 423  Tribe Member |
Posted at: 2013-10-04, 10:00
Currently, expedition ships do not carry soldiers. Should they, or should there be separate invader ships? If we had those, then also the ports should have garrisons. That would make placement of soldiers harder, when the player would need to choose whether to defend against possible naval assaults or not.
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118  One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2013-10-04, 12:02
In my opinin it should be done. Now we can have impasse during the play. One player has small island, second too and fird- the continent. Noone can win.
Garrisons could be created like in trainingscamp: from 0 to 12 soliders einstein13
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se5a Topic Opener
Joined: 2011-11-26, 10:04
Posts: 28 Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2013-10-04, 12:37
I think rather than separate ships, have a separate expedition.
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18
Posts: 1445 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 10:41
Having one ship is not enough though, this will be very hard to balance. Imagine the ship contains 20 soldiers -> it will be nearly impossible to defeat it so it is very, very strong. If it only has like 8 soldiers or so it will not be able to conquer a castle though. In my mind, the correct approach is a military expedition with more than one ship (but no new ship type). Each ship packs 6-10 soldiers (I think 8 is a good starting point for testing this out). Sea warfare is then super expensive (because you need a lot of ships) and can be scouted (i.e. when your enemy sails his ship close to you shipbuilder he will see you are building an armada which gives time to prepare and fortify). The armada will only be able to land at a port and in its immediate vicinity and all ships will become 'military buildings' of their own right. This will not happen before b19 - and there are lots of bugs in the current seafaring that needs fixing before that.
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fk
Joined: 2013-07-30, 21:58
Posts: 151  At home in WL-forums |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 12:57
Does the marine invasion involve that soldiers jump out of the ship, assemble in front of the port and start to battle with soldiers that come out of the port and surrounding buildings? This would imply that the balance of the battle is determined by the numbers of military buildings that can be build around the port, and by the number of ships that can land in the waters in front of that port. (If the port is built at a place where the land bends inwards than it can be easier defended than if it were build where the land bends outwards.) What happens next is that on the side of the defender beaten soldiers will be replaced by new soldiers from HQ or other sites, and that the attacker will send more ships with new soldiers. In fact it should be the same as a battle on land. But why then attacking ports only, invasions could also take place with any military building. Edited: 2013-10-05, 13:10
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 13:21
I agree with you, SirVer.
Edited: 2013-10-05, 13:23
einstein13
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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 15:21
Posts: 180  Widelands-Forum-Junkie Location: Alemania |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 15:02
I don't think so! Resp that Aspect is relative to OverAllMatter. EG I would not try to assault Denmark with that Ship nowadays due to they have Navy! What I mean is that in a 128X128-Map that may be almost a deadly Strike while for larger Maps that's just a Drip Water on hot Stone. I aggree with you that this Size makes a Fortress change into a minor Oponent per HeadCount and there would have to be two Fortress with 24 Head resp Defenders resp 22 pot Aggressors to keep small Advantage to Ship. I guess drive up Number of Military-Sites (eg. DOUBLE and same for RESOURCES like IronMines) reverse instead turning Ship into NutShell.
If you add Crew for a Ship with Need for Consume Things get even more interesting. I won't like to see hardly to explain why Ship can move 20 Passengers but just 8 if they hold a Weapon in their Hand. That's currious! There exist Ships which can move 20 Passengers and other which can move 20 equivalent 'Cargo-Units' but not same Ship can do both if you don't want to stack Passengers into Boxes like Goods! If Ship get independent Capacities for Passengers and Freight than Problem should be solved matching your and my here declared Requirements for a Solution. I don't see btw the Constraint to use eg 3 Ships instead 1 to invade with >=20 Soldiers not as such a big Point but just as temporal Obstavle as you need 3x Time to build meachnical Invasion-Gear. What would me really pee as Freshy in Game is if any superior AI-Player attack me at Home and cause to me big Trouble to defeat Invaders and his Ships drive back to return anytime with new Forces and I can no Way due to Game-Features not destroy these Ships by own Navy or Remote-Weapons from Infrantry.
That sounds good to me!
That sounds lesser good to me but can identify technical BackGround.
Wait for Years, won't get now nervous! Ship-Store needs just to count seperately for Passenger and Cargo if not Store gets splitted itself to address that Type of 'Items' are different and may anytime call for different Handling like Cargo may not call for FoodWater eg. Even more than Invasion I wait for InLand-Exploration from a Ship with Expedition-Crew resp Scouts and Geologists to explore first Resources before decide Settlement. I like Ports (but their Gold-REQ for Build) and like even more of it's possible to create Mini-Port without Storage while Ship itself acts as Storage to that Way very small Investments suited like for Explore-Matter like above. BUT if Port or WareHouse - Costs are mainly same but the Gold. So that Mini-Port is not about circumstancing Buid-Costs but to provide Small-Iron aside of BigIron Large Port. Will think of doing Scientific Academy like Thing analog to ScoutHouse but Geologist which does pick sometimes for Minerals. Edited: 2013-10-05, 15:05
Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 18:11
Is it necessary? For me most of maps are designed to have gold near the new port spaces. I'ts the map designer's target to make maps playable. einstein13
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18
Posts: 1445 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2013-10-05, 21:02
Military is a necessity to have interaction with other players in Widelands. But it is a necessary evil, Widelands is about building up not burning down. Therfore the player should be aware where he can be attacked and it should be clearly defined and few places - so that the economic aspect stays in the focus. Therefore I have a bad feeling about letting sea warfare happen everywhere. @Einstein: Raul even started to implement this way back - it did not get finished so far. I agree that this is how it should look more or less. In general, I do not think that ships should get even more features beyond military aspects. They should just be one feature of Widelands and not dominate in all strategies - so I do not see scouts or lumberjacks or whatever on ships right now. Feel free to convince me otherwise.
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But what happened after the winning? Should the port be destroyed or captured and rebuilt? What about other buildings (barracks, fortresses, towers) having some terrain around the port?