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Topic: How will the different tribes exploit seafaring?

simplypeachy

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Joined: 2009-04-23, 11:42
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Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted at: 2013-09-28, 18:55

Some of the appeal of Widelands is how the tribes differ but are balanced. At the moment seafaring is almost the same for the three tribes, differing only slightly for the wares needed for expeditions. What strengths and weaknesses could the tribes have when sailing the open sea?


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Adamant

Joined: 2012-10-11, 15:21
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Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-09-29, 15:19

I advice to factor strongly the given ArtWork for Ships. That means that the Emperial Ship is larger which anyway indicate it can also load a Lot Cargo while that Ship of Babarians look IMO LiteWeight. So I suggest to don't try to make Babarian Ship to HeavyDuty-Gear while Emperial Pot turns into Ship with Nut-Shell-Features.

Actually there exist NO WaterDepth in WL. We may assume that Ship-Depths is proportoinal to Safety-Distance from CoastLine resp Ships drive slower if closer to CoastLine than Safety-Distance and for large Ships that Distance is larger than for small Ships. So get lite Ships with smalll(er) Cargo-Capacity a fine PRO for Exploration. Problem occour that a Ship with Colonization-Equipment can't load all necessary Material. As we know from ordinary Construction-Sites we can start Construction of eg a Castle even if we have just a single Stone for it -- that ConstructionSite as Kind of TerrainPort orders missing Material from WareHoueses. We could go same with splitted Material-Transfers. OR we go the other Way around and inc Cargo-Capacity for large Ships beyond 20 Units and thus can load additional Material for next. Abstracted Problem is: In RL if we can do a Port with one Ship and 20 Cargo-Units we can so same with 4 Ships with each 5 Cargo-Units what means that Matter does not depends totally strictly from CargoCapacity per Ship but OverALl-Capacity of provided Ships (if we don't factor in that Goods with non-iso-sized Mass Geometry could exist -- we can not half a Horse and carry it with two Boats for example).

Briefer several additional Attribute as Distinguishment-Features: -- Speed (found it as first! well...) -- Agility (Stop-and-Go-Issues related how quickly it react on changed Situation. If Type_A checks each Seconds and a less agil Ship checks all 5 Seconds than this should result into a clear different Behavior in Traffic-Yam (clearly faster or just clearly different?) ) .
-- Lite Dragon-Ships could land on suited Coasts (Beach/GrassLand) while the Emperial may have to stay in Water. (concerns to Landing-Ships ... Emperial may land differentöy but theor heavy Ships won't land that easily resp same like Dragon-Boats. ) -- Crew still does misses on a Ship. At least a Captain should be there resp the larger Ships need bigger Crew (add the Navigator?). Bigger Crew means Option of feeding Crew from Cargo. (just a Step into Direction with Opportunity to add there Tribe-specific Features.) -- Ships-Seight (!) the larger Ships should have clearer Advantages in SightRange (but still curious if two People on different Ships can not see both each other due to just one got the better Sight-Range from higher Sight-Height ....) -- With a Wind-Model it would be possible to factor in stronger Pro from lite Ships by manual Propulsion ("Paddle"?) while the BigIron is slower than. So it's anyway same Matter like that listed by Term Speed.

Fazit: Capacity (Cargo/Persons .. we should not try to put Cargo into the Cabins and Persons into the FreightRoom .. it's simply not the same!! Or we move them in Bottles! .... WHAT is wrong?) , Maneauveribility (ouch! can you indentify thtat Word?), Agility (Delay before (visible Inter-)Action happens. Consider a Snail trying to cross a Road which read the Bus-Line-Times before: Snails have other Delays and use other Timings than a Fly when moving). If we work with several Timing-Settings for abstract Activities (time_make_clear_to_anchor, et cetera, we got a more reasonable Timing_Behavior resp more rational balanced Timings (call it here Timing-Model) with lesser Problems about thinking how to balance them to match the real existing Timing-Model by Nature). BTW even Sea-Faring is very important that is true eg for Production or Construction-Materials as well and we look for Tribe-specific Differences. If we want to archive/keep Balance by making Ships anyway ballanced but different at same Level (to avoid that someone has better Ships and resign to give him other PROs like faster Production) then we may consider to take a Generic Tribe and apply just different Icons and Names for its Things due to that's balanced. We don't search for Differences which are not Differences -- and Differences means also different Advantages. Same or not same? Unsame but same solvable like shown by using different Names and Icons. Who want that even would it not looks curious? Tic-Tac-Toe is balanced.

In this Content: Petro-Oleum -- Rock-Oil -- was discoverable on Surface -- you did not need DrillingTowers and Pumps to get Petroleum but simply pushed with a Stick onto the Surface and Oil appeared. Petroleum concerns to LampOil, LampOil to artificial Illumination and artificial Illumination to effective usable Period of Day (avg 12h:12h from Day-Night-Cycle versus 16h active with avg 4h artificial illuminated per Day and 8h RestTime .... with Petroleum-Lamp you can use 4h more per Day means about +33% Productity -- if you factor in Washing, Cooking, Eating, getting new Clothes, as some Kind of necessary Maintainance of your personal Eco-Gear ... with PetroleumLamp you can better utilize your Day-Activity-Period and don't have to go to bed or sit in the Dark without usable Sight. As we have RockCoal as other fossile EnergyCarrier in Game RockOil could do a fine Job to enrich Economy. My Point is more likely a Question: how did Antices transport Petroleum on Ships (and they did with Ships most economical those Days)? Like Wine in LiquidContainers? Just asking, due to I thought about Tank.-Ships .. and that appears to me as NonSense.

However, different Settings for Passenger-Amount and Cargoe-Capacity would cause theoretic Differences .... theoretical due to I figured out anytime for WL SeaFaring that the -Ships for "Line-Traffic" did drive with very small Loads and moving 20 Goods meant about 8 moving Ships driving almost empty few Things there .... face-confused.png any Ship with 100 Pcs Good-Capacity would drive just with additional empty Cargoe-Space .. in WorstCase! Point is to use different Numbers for Passengers and Cargo to add Differences to Ship-Types....

No Idea what Specials the Atlantean's Ships may have .. look like Trimarans and therefore ... should be fast and more comfortable due to it's lesser vulnerable to rolling what means Passengers get lesser sick ... but actually no physiological States implementes for Units which causes Illness to them and eg thus MAY decrease Attack-Strength of Weather is worse of Landing-Troops.

Brief OverAllPoint: You got trouble to implement Tribe-specific Differences in Attributes if you don't implement Attributes/Features which can differ.
That means here that Atlantean Trimaran have either to fly or there have Sea-Conditions to get omplemented, Sickness for Units to get able to map credible Pros of Trimaran into Game. (lite,stable,fast,comfortable, much lesser sea-sickness due to much lesser rolling, ...) Atlantean Ships may be really fast due to Materials (Spider-Yarn!!) and Ships-Type Trimaran but I don't know how fine they can maneuver and how fine they are suited for Exploration of Rivers --- InLand-Discovery via WaterWays. That's very important Aspect of Exploration

-Adamant


Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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