Topic: Training sites

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Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 20:58 UTC+1.0 Hi, a question for more experienced them me. I am trying to improve a logic for building of training centers and so I need better understanding of how they works. Usually one building is to be built first as it needs less scarce inputs. I identified them as first/second. Except for Atlanteans where I am not sure. Barbarians: Battle Arena - first Training Camp - second Atlanteans: Dungeon Labyrinth Which one is to be built first? Empire: Arena - first Training Camp - second Colosseum - any of two can be upgraded to this? Is Colloseum a replacement for both? Or for one of them? Or all three buildings are needed? Any other comments/ideas/suggestions? Just let them be easy to implement :) Top Quote

kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48 UTC+1.0 Posts: 2659 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 21:45 UTC+1.0 For empire i could say: A colloseum is an upgrade from arena and replaces the arena. Both, arena and colloseum did the same work (strengthen the defense), except that the colloseum enhance the soldiers defense more than the arena. But it needs more bread and meat/fish. From my point of view: I build an arena as fast as i can. Depending on how far away the enemy is, upgrade it fast to a colloseum. Preparing my soldiers in defense is more usefull than strengthen the attack (which is only brought through the training camp). I build only a training camp, if there is gold and i builded the economy to mine the gold: vineyard and winery (which needs much stone/marble colummns). But my point of view regards only playing against the AI. if you change this, i would maybe rethink Top Quote

wl-zocker Joined: 2011-12-30, 17:37 UTC+1.0 Posts: 492 Tribe Member Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 22:32 UTC+1.0 What kaputtnik wrote is not completely correct. Both the arena and the colosseum train the evade of soldiers. The arena only trains the first level, the colosseum trains both. AFAIK, the training of the first level needs the same resources in both buildings. See also the Wiki page about soldier levels. I try to build an arena as early as possible. I think it should be possible to enhance the arena with your initial gold reserve, if you do not use it for anything else. The arena/colosseum only consumes food and can therefore work before you built up a mining industry. The training camp requires weapon as input. The Barbarian battle arena is not that easy to handle because it needs strongbeer. To get that, you first have to build a farm and a micro-brewery. Then you have to wait until your worker has enough experience before you can enhance the micro-brewery to a brewery which eventually produces strongbeer. While this takes some time, I think it is still wise to use you inital gold to build a battle arena instead of using it to forge better axes. The Atlanteans are somewhat special because they have no evade-only building, which would clearly be the "first building". The dungeon cannot do anything if not supplied with tridents. The labyrinth can train soldiers in evade if supplied with food (similar to the other tribes), but only very inefficiently: It sleeps 30 seconds for every possible training steps, including those that are going to fail. This might moreover make soldier that could still be trained in evade leave the building. This is the reason why I postpone the construction of both buildings until I have a running weapon-producing industry. @kaputtnik: Marble mines also need wine (not only gold mines). Building a vineyard and a winery is therefore essential for the Empire. "Only few people know how much one has to know in order to know how little one knows." - Werner Heisenberg Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 22:38 UTC+1.0 with atlantis you need the labyrinth faster. the first priority is to get some soldiers with evade 2, which is the cheapers and more effective than any other promotion. so labirynth with atlantis, and with empire go for colosseum directly. with atlantis what you can skip until a later part is the armor smith. the shields are very expensive and only gives a moderate bonus, they are a waste of resources if your soldiers don't already have several attac promotions. Top Quote

Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 23:14 UTC+1.0 Thanks guys, this is exactly what I needed. I must read it thorougly and think about it Top Quote

Mars Joined: 2009-03-28, 10:26 UTC+1.0 Posts: 118 Likes to be here Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-03-12, 23:59 UTC+1.0 I cannot prove it by numbers but I have good experiences with a dungeon and level 1 or 2 attack soldiers against empire/barbarian evade 2 soldiers. The problem I see with atlanteans and training evasion is that it needs wood for 2 smoked fish and you can spent it probably better for food for mines and weapons than evasion. Top Quote

einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1116 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2015-03-13, 10:58 UTC+1.0 Mars wrote: I cannot prove it by numbers but I have good experiences with a dungeon and level 1 or 2 attack soldiers against empire/barbarian evade 2 soldiers. The problem I see with atlanteans and training evasion is that it needs wood for 2 smoked fish and you can spent it probably better for food for mines and weapons than evasion. I'm not good at Atlaentans, but I know that fully upgraded soldier is much better than anyone else. I need to mass attack (lvl 10) with Empire to kill few of lvl 10. So upgrading evade is also very important. About pure evade points: I've seen many times that my evaded soldiers (lvl 2) killed even higher (lvl 3-4) soldiers, but not evaded. I'm not afraid of attack lvl 4 (no evade) Atlanteans. It costs much more than my and usually kill only one or two before death. einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 20:11 UTC+1.0 another small question: in one of testing games, AI upgraded to colosseum, but it remained without a worker (trainer I believe). So a trainer needs a tool and this is to be produced in toolsmithy - do I understand it corectly? Or is there another requirement? Top Quote

einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1116 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 20:22 UTC+1.0 Tibor wrote: another small question: in one of testing games, AI upgraded to colosseum, but it remained without a worker (trainer I believe). So a trainer needs a tool and this is to be produced in toolsmithy - do I understand it corectly? Or is there another requirement? From 7XXX dev version (don't know which version) a trainer need a helmet AND spear, both produced by armory and wepon smithy for Empire. The same requirements for a soldier. Oh... I've answered now one question: why I didn't manage to build only lvl 10 soldiers in barbarians Thank you answer: barabarian's soldier needs only an axe. If you create it you have a soldier. Level 0, then evade it to level 2. This process is very fast. For empire it is more complex: you have 2 "tools", both needed in one warehouse (/headquaters /port), and this process can take much more time than leveling up in training camp (if you will set your economy up properly). Probably the same with atleants. Edited: 2015-03-15, 20:23 UTC+1.0 einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 20:32 UTC+1.0 So to summarize - one trainer is given on game start - trainers in all tribes needs a helmet AND a spear correct? EDIT: training centers have quite hight capacity for soldiers - would it make any difference if I reduce the capacity to 2 - 3 or 4 soldiers? It would help AI with planning and undestanding how many soldiers are missed... Edited: 2015-03-15, 20:43 UTC+1.0 Top Quote

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