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Topic: Wares Icon size

Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-03, 22:07

Hi every one, Today I have been playing Settlers 2 this first time again since I dunno when.
I was really surprized at the level of detail that they show with things like the wares icons and graphic buttons of the UI!
I wonder how they did it and why I cannot come up with something similar. Is anybody up to giving a good estimated comparison of the pixel sizes we use in WL and what they did in S2?
Unfortuneatly I cannot produce a screenshot there, except maybe with a camera. But maybe somebody has already compared things like this?
I'm currently experimentning with the idle.png for ingots and feel very limited with what I can do with so few pixels.


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 16:09

Found out myself by comparing a 640x480 screenshot that came with the game.
They are 30x30 including the facette.
Here you can see the original picture.

Edited: 2011-03-04, 16:10

Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 16:16

Our use of Blender to create 3D models in developing graphics for widelands contributes greatly to the detail we can achieve in even the smallest of objects. 2D Pixel artistry is an enviable talent and I can fully appreciate Astuur's frustrations.
Perhaps rendering the icons from a 3D original where lighting can be easily adjusted may yield a more desirable result?

More and more I am finding that I am at a disadvantage by never having played or seen the original S2. face-sad.png I'll poke around on the web to see if I can unearth any graphics from the old S2. Maybe I can find a copy of it as abandonware? face-smile.png

EDIT: I posted this before I saw Astuur's recent post. face-smile-big.png

Edited: 2011-03-04, 16:18

I see little people.

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Venatrix
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Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31
Posts: 449
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 16:58

As far as I know, the Settlers series isn’t abandoned. And I’m pretty sure that it won’t happen as long as there are games with the word „Settlers“ in the name that are for sale. Not everbody likes open source. face-wink.png


Two is the oddest prime.

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 17:18

Venatrix wrote: As far as I know, the Settlers series isn’t abandoned. And I’m pretty sure that it won’t happen as long as there are games with the word „Settlers“ in the name that are for sale. Not everbody likes open source.

Ah well, I should have suspected that... especially if the "Settlers" brand is still on the market. face-smile.png

EDIT Does anyone know where I might acquire the original?

Edited: 2011-03-04, 17:20

I see little people.

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Venatrix
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Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31
Posts: 449
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 18:38

Well, it seems I must take my last post back. It surprised me to see, that it seems to be abandonware after all… The first hit from google led me to this page: http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/settlers-2-gold-edition.php

But it doesn’t surprise me any more, that Widelands was a German project in the beginning: The developer of Settlers (Blue Byte) is a German company (now part of Ubisoft since ten years). However, that’s the reason for the game being best known in Germany. face-wink.png


Two is the oddest prime.

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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 19:16

@ chuckw
They really have done an amazing job.
Here are some more impressions taken from the screenshots that the game showed during setup:

Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4

They have used them also in ads, so I hope its not some sort of infringement.

It should be easy to create an ingot in blender and you'd have it correctly lit up.
Do so, if you're in the mood. I am still not good with blender.
I am afraid it still will not look so good once it's scaled down to our usual sized. All my nice looking metal gradients get ugly at that size.
I will have to look what wares' idle.pngs allow. it's 24 by 24 I think. And yes -- seems like one gold ingot and one iron ingot is common ground - so be it.

Edited: 2011-03-04, 19:29

Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2011-03-04, 20:41

Venatrix wrote: Well, it seems I must take my last post back. It surprised me to see, that it seems to be abandonware after all… The first hit from google led me to this page: http://www.bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/settlers-2-gold-edition.php

Thanks for the lead. I'll check it out.

@Astuur
I know the "real estate" for the icons is limited. That was the principle reason we decided to pictograms to represent the workers in menus. You couldn't create an easily recognizable human figure. I appreciate your efforts. I'll see what I might cobble together for some ingots. face-smile.png


I see little people.

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ixprefect
Joined: 2009-02-27, 14:28
Posts: 367
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Tribe Member
Posted at: 2011-03-05, 14:35

Settlers 2 was/is a truly amazing game as far as graphics are concerned. I still think it beats many modern AAA titles when it comes to how good it looks. Of course, a lot of that is simply personal taste, but it is impressive what they managed to do with 2D pixel art. Well-crafted 2D art simply beats out 3D graphics any time if the perspective is fixed.

There is a project to reimplement the Settlers 2 engine faithfully called "Return to the Roots"; similar to other such engine-reimplementation projects, you can only play it with the original Settlers 2 game data. I was looking for them right now because I am sure they have more screen shots - you can find them here: http://www.siedler25.org/index.php?com=dynamic&mod=7&year=2009 Parts of the UI are different than the original S2, and I'm sure there are subtle differences in terrain rendering, but apart from that I believe it looks pretty much exactly like the original.

I'm browsing their code now, and it's interesting to see the different design decisions they have made in their project as compared to what we did. For example, Widelands is much more data driven - makes sense, since RttR had a very specific goal of "reimplement this", whereas we were always experimenting with different economy structures for the different tribes. That has stabilized now to a certain extent, but it's good to know that adding a tribe with a totally different economic structure would be relatively painless for us, whereas in RttR it would require a lot amount of programming work. On the other hand, they already seem to have working seafaring. Oh well face-wink.png


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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2011-03-05, 16:06

Okay--- I had a go at the ingots in a 2d approach. I'm not really satisfied, but run out of ideas to try.
Size is acceptable, I hope, lighting should give a credible illusion. The problem is the metallic reflecting surface that I wanted to have, but not overdone. after all those ingots are not polished.
I am a bit reminded of coffin tops, but I hope not everyone is face-smile.png

It's okay with the 100x100 pixels that I started from, but cutting down the size is not so good.
Width for idle.png is 13 and menu.png is 24.
The hotspot setting (5 6) is debatable. There seems to be no ideal solution for both types of carriers (animals and men).
They are here for those that want to try out.
Unpack in /Widelands and overwrite the originals.

@Ixprefect: intersting site! Thanks


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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