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Topic: logic toolsmithy production

knarf
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Posted at: 2024-03-11, 21:12

Hi,

I do have a question I wondered since I started playing: often I see myself waiting for tools to get produced by a toolsmithy. Even when they have all necessary wares, they seem to really slowly cycle through things I don't want them to produce, what they in fact do not produce and tell me why (is not needed by the economy), but what I then always wonder: why is this so slow? When, e.g., they do not need to produce a hammer and they don't produce one, why don't they instead start with what is needed instead of taking their time thinking about what they will not produce anyway?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2024-03-12, 20:02

They do start on the needed wares right away, but the tooltip is not updated until the production has actually been completed. So in the ~71 seconds of the production (half of which is sleep time, so no work to be seen) the toolsmithy is actually producing a needed tool but the tooltip still shows the last tool it skipped.


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knarf
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Posted at: 2024-03-13, 21:27

Would it be considered an 'ok' idea to change that: to show what they are producing at that moment?


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mxb2001
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Posted at: 2024-03-16, 16:14

It is somewhat useful as it is to let one see what's the problem. I agree though it would be nice if we got extra info such as what is currently being done also.


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knarf
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Posted at: 2024-03-19, 19:46

mxb2001 wrote:

It is somewhat useful as it is to let one see what's the problem. I agree though it would be nice if we got extra info such as what is currently being done also.

Which problem do you see? It does show you why one of the many thing was not made last try, but in my experience, that most of the time was not the one I was interested in and sometimes it was not even true (anymore): the toolsmithy was telling me 'x' was not produced because the economy would not need it, while there were buildings that needed workers which needed those tools - possibly just finished buildings, but still wrong at that moment. Maybe it even was producing that tool that very moment, but a player wouldn't know.


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mxb2001
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Posted at: 2024-03-20, 14:58

knarf wrote:

mxb2001 wrote:

It is somewhat useful as it is to let one see what's the problem. I agree though it would be nice if we got extra info such as what is currently being done also.

Which problem do you see? It does show you why one of the many thing was not made last try, but in my experience, that most of the time was not the one I was interested in and sometimes it was not even true (anymore): the toolsmithy was telling me 'x' was not produced because the economy would not need it, while there were buildings that needed workers which needed those tools - possibly just finished buildings, but still wrong at that moment. Maybe it even was producing that tool that very moment, but a player wouldn't know.

I think it should show both what was done as well as what is currently being done. I'm pretty sure that the past production is useful to show me that something is missing. It says stuff like couldn't make coal because logs are missing for a charcoal burner. Then I know I gotta look into the building, see if I turned off logs, then check if logs are coming, if the roads are clear, if they are being produced enough (the usual problem :- ) and so on.

Of course it just occurs to me that if the current prod. info also tells me that it's missing X... hmmm then one would not need the historical info I suppose.

Edited: 2024-03-20, 14:58

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knarf
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Posted at: 2024-03-20, 15:13

I don't argue that there is a lot of information that could be useful. There could be a complex routine that puts all of that into a text that is as short as possible. If we want to go a little simpler (and shorter), we would need to prioritise. This would be my order of importance, with a cut-off somewhere yet unspecified in that list. The order in the final output could be different.

  • currently producing X
  • skipped Y despite demand because Z is missing
  • could produce ABC, and have chosen X because WHY (e.g. because direct need from buildings/missing workers vs. from economy, if that would be possible)
  • skipped EFG because not needed by economy

At the moment, I often get "skipped because is not needed by economy" all the while the building is producing something else, and it neither tells me that is is currently producing nor what. And often the 'is' is already wrong and a 'was' would be better.

Edited: 2024-03-20, 15:14

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mxb2001
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Posted at: 2024-03-21, 16:01

knarf wrote: At the moment, I often get "skipped because is not needed by economy" all the while the building is producing something else, and it neither tells me that is is currently producing nor what. And often the 'is' is already wrong and a 'was' would be better.

Oh yeah, totally agree that it really needs improvement. It's not that the skipped msg is useless (it could remind you that you've accidentally turned off demand for it heh) but it sure is not the most vital piece of info.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2024-03-25, 07:09

knarf wrote:

I don't argue that there is a lot of information that could be useful. There could be a complex routine that puts all of that into a text that is as short as possible. If we want to go a little simpler (and shorter), we would need to prioritise. This would be my order of importance, with a cut-off somewhere yet unspecified in that list. The order in the final output could be different.

  • currently producing X
  • skipped Y despite demand because Z is missing
  • could produce ABC, and have chosen X because WHY (e.g. because direct need from buildings/missing workers vs. from economy, if that would be possible)

as explained earlier such a mechanism to choose is not implemented and hence such message is not possible

  • skipped EFG because not needed by economy

At the moment, I often get "skipped because is not needed by economy" all the while the building is producing something else, and it neither tells me that is is currently producing nor what. And often the 'is' is already wrong and a 'was' would be better.

We will have a look whether we might be able to include the actual production into the message, however it might not be easy. Normally the activity of a building (whether it is producing something) should be visible from the animations. However we miss such animations for some buildings. so this might be a second means to see the activity as kind of workaround.


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knarf
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Posted at: 2024-03-27, 11:27

hessenfarmer wrote: We will have a look whether we might be able to include the actual production into the message, however it might not be easy. Normally the activity of a building (whether it is producing something) should be visible from the animations. However we miss such animations for some buildings. so this might be a second means to see the activity as kind of workaround.

I agree that it would be nice to have an animation that something is currently being produced. It would not show what that is, though, or how would it do that?


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