Latest Posts

Topic: Geologist control

hessenfarmer
Avatar
Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 1609
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 13:32

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.


Top Quote
Nordfriese
Avatar
Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
Posts: 1089
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: 0x55555d3a34c0
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 15:32

https://github.com/widelands/widelands/pull/4391


Top Quote
kaputtnik
Avatar
Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1961
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 19:10

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.

What if the player wants to look for water at such a flag? If the water is maybe necessary in the future:

Nordfriese wrote:

That is going to be changed as soon as we have an add-on system because then I'll implement one of the proposals from the last discussion as an add-on face-wink.png So the geologist should keep the ability to search for water

Some behavior of the game is not logical. Why should a geologist should go to find only ores, although some non mountain terrain in his vicinity?


Top Quote
Nordfriese
Avatar
Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
Posts: 1089
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: 0x55555d3a34c0
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 19:44

kaputtnik wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.

What if the player wants to look for water at such a flag? If the water is maybe necessary in the future:

Place a flag just beneath the mountain's edge and send the geologist there. After all there is no water in the mountains so any place where you might want to find water has to have at least one small plot (for the well) where you can place the flag to send the geologist to.

And the geologist may also find water on the edge between mountain and meadow. Those edge tiles are also considered mountain but can hold both water or ores.

Nordfriese wrote:

That is going to be changed as soon as we have an add-on system because then I'll implement one of the proposals from the last discussion as an add-on face-wink.png So the geologist should keep the ability to search for water

Some behavior of the game is not logical. Why should a geologist should go to find only ores, although some non mountain terrain in his vicinity?

To me this is logical: The geologist doesn't look for resources because he feels like a walk, but because you gave him an explicit order. Sending a geologist to a flag near mountain is like telling him "Go and find me resources in those mountains!". Sending a geologist to a flag in the valley is like telling him "Go and find me resources in this valley!". So the geologist obediently restricts his search to the indicated area – mountain or valley.

How about adjusting the tooltip in the fieldaction window to tell the player whether the geologist would look for ores or water from this flag?


Top Quote
hessenfarmer
Avatar
Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 1609
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 19:51

kaputtnik wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.

What if the player wants to look for water at such a flag? If the water is maybe necessary in the future:

if he wants to look for water he could use the next flag in this direction. Normally mountains are less big and less available then water. That is why I would vote for having the new behavior as sometimes it is difficult to search for ores in a small mountain. (e.g. in empire 3 there is a small mining plot on 1 of the islands where there is some gold which can't be searched as you need to place the flag exactly on the spot where the gold is to search for and all other spots are empty.


Top Quote
kaputtnik
Avatar
Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1961
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-10-21, 23:19

Nordfriese wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.

What if the player wants to look for water at such a flag? If the water is maybe necessary in the future:

Place a flag just beneath the mountain's edge and send the geologist there. After all there is no water in the mountains so any place where you might want to find water has to have at least one small plot (for the well) where you can place the flag to send the geologist to.

And the geologist may also find water on the edge between mountain and meadow. Those edge tiles are also considered mountain but can hold both water or ores.

Nordfriese wrote:

That is going to be changed as soon as we have an add-on system because then I'll implement one of the proposals from the last discussion as an add-on face-wink.png So the geologist should keep the ability to search for water

Some behavior of the game is not logical. Why should a geologist should go to find only ores, although some non mountain terrain in his vicinity?

To me this is logical: The geologist doesn't look for resources because he feels like a walk, but because you gave him an explicit order. Sending a geologist to a flag near mountain is like telling him "Go and find me resources in those mountains!". Sending a geologist to a flag in the valley is like telling him "Go and find me resources in this valley!". So the geologist obediently restricts his search to the indicated area – mountain or valley.

I do not see any reason why the geologist should be forced "Go and find me resources in those mountains!" just because the flag which demands the geologist is adjacent to a mountain. Whereas i find it logical to force him to "Go and find me all resources in this valley!", wherever the flag was set.

hessenfarmer wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

Why not just change the behaviour so the geologist looks for ores if at least one of the six triangles next to the flag is mountain; otherwise for water

+1 this seems to be the best solution imho as it would prefer ores over water.

What if the player wants to look for water at such a flag? If the water is maybe necessary in the future:

if he wants to look for water he could use the next flag in this direction. Normally mountains are less big and less available then water. That is why I would vote for having the new behavior as sometimes it is difficult to search for ores in a small mountain. (e.g. in empire 3 there is a small mining plot on 1 of the islands where there is some gold which can't be searched as you need to place the flag exactly on the spot where the gold is to search for and all other spots are empty.

Well, with my suggestion you haven't bother. Just place a flag near the mountains and send a geologist an he will also examine the small mountain area. In addition the flag may not reduce building spaces for mines.


Top Quote
GunChleoc
Avatar
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3320
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2020-10-22, 08:14

The problem with that suggestion is that the geologist will pick a completely random spot within his search area and he won't cover all the spots. So, there's a good chance he won't though that small mountain patch at all and you will have to send another one.

The current behavior depends on which edge of the mountain you place the flag on, because the check depends on 3 of the 6 triangles. This is a non-symmetric implementation detail that can't be clear to the player in any shape or form.


Busy indexing nil values

Top Quote
kaputtnik
Avatar
Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1961
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-10-22, 18:11

GunChleoc wrote:

The problem with that suggestion is that the geologist will pick a completely random spot within his search area and he won't cover all the spots. So, there's a good chance he won't though that small mountain patch at all and you will have to send another one.

Some players send more than one geologist anyway

Combine place flag and send geologist would help then.


Top Quote
mxb2001
Avatar
Joined: 2019-05-20, 18:49
Posts: 102
Ranking
Likes to be here
Location: Lost in dreamland
Posted at: 2020-10-23, 03:27

I tried sending a geo to a edge with mountain on 3 or more sides and they still looked for water. How do you make them work?


--
Any typos are the fault of my laptop keyboard

Top Quote
GunChleoc
Avatar
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3320
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2020-10-23, 06:47

I'm still in favor of merging the proposed change. The other issues will take longer to address, and it would already be an improvement to make this change.

https://github.com/widelands/widelands/pull/4391

Edited: 2020-10-23, 06:48

Busy indexing nil values

Top Quote