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Topic: Slow start (poor hamlet & basic outpost)

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2020-06-10, 17:41

Denethor wrote:

hey... just tried the challenge with barbarians as well and I was able to get to a point where it was only a matter of time to gather enough wood. I played without any enemies though just to figure out the build order. I felt like it took me way too long to get to a point where I had established even the most basic economy.

I solved the issue of having the toolsmith produce "the right" tool by demolishing my wood hardener and rebuild it later. I am pretty sure that I didn't have any iron left for an additional axe, so is it even possible without demolishing either the lumberjack or the wood hardener (sure to be the better choice) or relying pretty much on "luck" to have the necessary tool produced?

After the change provided in my last post, it should be possible to solve it without dismantling the wood hardener. You just need to ensure that the one tool necessary for further work (i don't want to spoil this here) is already requested when the metal works start their production. (as said in the tooltip in poor hamlet there is no superfluous ware included, any wrong use of a starting ressource will lead to fail this) There is no luck in getting the right tool, nor a chance to manipulate the order of tools produced by any in game action. That is why I made the last change to this ensuring the right tool is produced before an additional aax is produced if it is requested by the economy (it simply is first in the order of checking).

I didn't try to cut the roads for the wood hardener though. Can anybody confirm that this works?

I think somebody invented a workaround but this was so complicated, that I can't remeber it. But as said this is should not be necessary anymore.


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Denethor
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Joined: 2020-05-28, 08:10
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Posted at: 2020-06-10, 17:45

the-x wrote:

Thats right, they are far to low and sometimes frustrating. We should about double the start resources.

I don't think that's necessary since there is another starting mode somewhere between "normal" start and the bare minimum with some more ressources to start with. I don't know how it is called though. I think the interesting point about this special starting condition is to start right from the bare minimum - if you change anything at this point it will loose most of its charm.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2020-06-10, 20:33

Denethor wrote:

the-x wrote:

Thats right, they are far to low and sometimes frustrating. We should about double the start resources.

I don't think that's necessary since there is another starting mode somewhere between "normal" start and the bare minimum with some more ressources to start with. I don't know how it is called though. I think the interesting point about this special starting condition is to start right from the bare minimum - if you change anything at this point it will loose most of its charm.

Correct. "poor hamlet" is the bare minimum, while basic outpost is more the less a doubled poor hamlet with more tolerance for errors (e.g. the workers are in the starting conditions instead of just iron for tools)


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stdh
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Joined: 2013-08-04, 22:05
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Posted at: 2020-06-13, 13:58

When I was testing the bare minimum start condition, I carefully avoided the production of any tool except the one I needed next. So I didn't make new buildings except the next one in the Right Order. The trick I used for the barbarian woodcutter was to make sure that there's never a lumberjack's hut and a wood hardener connected to the main economy at the same time. I did have both buildings, but I switched the lumberjack between them by disconnecting the roads, expelling the worker and 'catching' him with roads around (but not connected to) the building. Was that the complicated workaround that you're thinking of, hessenfarmer?


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-06-13, 19:03

stdh wrote:

When I was testing the bare minimum start condition, I carefully avoided the production of any tool except the one I needed next. So I didn't make new buildings except the next one in the Right Order. The trick I used for the barbarian woodcutter was to make sure that there's never a lumberjack's hut and a wood hardener connected to the main economy at the same time. I did have both buildings, but I switched the lumberjack between them by disconnecting the roads, expelling the worker and 'catching' him with roads around (but not connected to) the building. Was that the complicated workaround that you're thinking of, hessenfarmer?

the method you described is exactly the complicated workaround that was discussed on github. However this was only necessary due to the order of tools to be produced in barbarian metal works and not in empire toolsmithy for example. thats why I changed the order of tools to make this consistent with empire


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