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Topic: Single-player game setting suggestions

blind3rdeye
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Joined: 2020-03-26, 08:47
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2020-04-06, 08:34

Here are a bunch of suggestions about the setup of single-player games:

In the game setup screen (where it says 'launch game'):

  • Option for random starting position (i.e. the available starting positions are shuffled before being assigned).
  • 'Random tribe' should not select tribes that are not finished (experimental tribes).
  • Tribe selection should be a drop-down list rather than a cycling button (like the starting conditions drop-down menu).
  • Timed game modes (such as collectors) should have an adjustable time limit.
  • "Poor" and "struggling" starting condition names seem backwards to me. From the names alone, I'd guess that 'struggling' is worse than 'poor' - but the game seems to have 'poor' being the more difficult start. So I suggest swapping the adjectives; or perhaps using 'destitute' instead of 'poor', or 'basic outpost' instead of 'struggling outpost'. (The descriptions are clear though.) [edit: also, 'struggling outpost' is at the bottom of the list, which again suggests that it is weaker start than 'poor hamlet']

Suggestions about the main-menu while playing the game:

  • "Load" option directly from the menu would be nice, rather than have to quit and then load.
  • "Restart" to restart the map with the same settings.
  • "Game info" to open a screen which simply lists what the launch settings were. Such as the map name, the win condition, AI settings, and starting conditions.

As a side note about the 'poor' (hardest) start - I haven't tried it, but it looks like the lack of hammers is a real "gotcha". You only get two hammers, and no special workers. So if you accidentally try to build two things at once, or if you are unwise enough to try using a geologist, then you've lost the game because you then can't get a tool-smith. It seems almost cruel... but I guess that's what you get for choosing the hardest setting! I'm enjoying the 2nd hardest start for now - on maps that are large enough for me to not die before I get set up.

Edited: 2020-04-06, 09:13

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-04-06, 09:23

blind3rdeye wrote:

Here are a bunch of suggestions about the setup of single-player games:

In the game setup screen (where it says 'launch game'):

  • Option for random starting position (i.e. the available starting positions are shuffled before being assigned).

I am undecided on that because with one click you could easily choose your position.

  • 'Random tribe' should not select tribes that are not finished (experimental tribes).

as well undecided. The frisians were added to b20 in state they were playable well, with all graphics and even balanced soldiers. Only their economy was not balanced. Adding them with this mark should warn the player about this. Maybe in a state like this we should change this mark to (unbalanced). AI was doing fine with them as well. So the reason to add them was to get more feedback on them. Furthermore would be some codework to exclude them from this function. But I can see the rational behind your demand.

  • Tribe selection should be a drop-down list rather than a cycling button (like the starting conditions drop-down menu).

+1 as the next tribes are just around the corner.

  • Timed game modes (such as collectors) should have an adjustable time limit.

would be ok for me, also I never missed that. As playing collectors in single-player is rather useless as the AI can't do it. (they spent all their weapons rather then collecting them.

  • "Poor" and "struggling" starting condition names seem backwards to me. From the names alone, I'd guess that 'struggling' is worse than 'poor' - but the game seems to have 'poor' being the more difficult start. So I suggest swapping the adjectives; or perhaps using 'destitute' instead of 'poor', or 'basic outpost' instead of 'struggling outpost'. (The descriptions are clear though.)

Agreed +1 for basic outpost then.

Suggestions about the main-menu while playing the game:

  • "Load" option directly from the menu would be nice, rather than have to quit and then load.

+1

  • "Restart" to restart the map with the same settings.

+1

  • "Game info" to open a screen which simply lists what the launch settings were. Such as the map name, the win condition, AI settings, and starting conditions.

+1

As a side note about the 'poor' (hardest) start - I haven't tried it, but it looks like the lack of hammers is a real "gotcha". You only get two hammers, and no special workers. So if you accidentally try to build two things at once, or if you are unwise enough to try using a geologist, then you've lost the game because you then can't get a tool-smith. It seems almost cruel... but I guess that's what you get for choosing the hardest setting! I'm enjoying the 2nd hardest start for now - on maps that are large enough for me to not die before I get set up.

yep these conditions are more the less intended to be used on a single player game, or on multiplayer, however in poor hamlet you not only have the problem to waste a hammer but you also can't afford to waste a single iron. Basically there is only one way to develop a full economy in this mode and it doesn't allow any mistake.

Edited: 2020-04-06, 09:24

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Tribal-Chief
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Joined: 2018-12-09, 17:16
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Posted at: 2020-04-06, 10:44

I found out the hard way that discovery is similar to poor hamlet, you have only one way to get rations to start mining and a mistake prevents any mining.

I also discovered a bug with discovery, I started an 8 player game, 2 of each tribe, with 7 AI, I fully expected the AI to fail as the AI can only play one game, headquarters start and none of the interesting win conditions. In this case the log file filled with messages about only one expedition coa run at a time, I used my 4 ships to found ports, yes I had 4 ships. While I was starting to build an economy I found another ship I could use. I was begining to think I had read the description wrong but I had all the basic buildings under construction when I found a sixth ship. I seems at around this point my economy was split into two, one with the workers in it and one with raw materials in it and I could not switch between the economies.

It seems that I could control my Frisian ships and one of the AI team's ships as they were Frisian and at some point after starting they split into two teams again.

I agree with hessenfarmers +1's and the undecided are the same for me.

Incidentally when playing hardcore starts I use a modified hardcore start file for the AI, they start the same but every 15 minutes they get a 'gift' of a few pieces of any raw material they have run out of. They usually get to the basic economy stage at the same time I do, in the past they were at times able to defeat me but the military strategy seems very broken now and mostly they can never expand.


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2020-04-06, 16:10

I also discovered a bug with discovery, I started an 8 player game, 2 of each tribe, with 7 AI, I fully expected the AI to fail as the AI can only play one game, headquarters start and none of the interesting win conditions. In this case the log file filled with messages about only one expedition coa run at a time, I used my 4 ships to found ports, yes I had 4 ships. While I was starting to build an economy I found another ship I could use. I was begining to think I had read the description wrong but I had all the basic buildings under construction when I found a sixth ship. […]

It seems that I could control my Frisian ships and one of the AI team's ships as they were Frisian and at some point after starting they split into two teams again.

Perhaps you chose New World instead of Discovery? There you start with 7 ships instead of 3.

I seems at around this point my economy was split into two, one with the workers in it and one with raw materials in it and I could not switch between the economies.

Can you explain this in more detail?

  • Option for random starting position (i.e. the available starting positions are shuffled before being assigned).

  • Tribe selection should be a drop-down list rather than a cycling button (like the starting conditions drop-down menu).

+1

  • Timed game modes (such as collectors) should have an adjustable time limit.

+1, was suggested multiple times already

  • 'Random tribe' should not select tribes that are not finished (experimental tribes).

We don't have any more experimental tribes in master face-wink.png Would make sense when amazons are merged, but since we don't create new tribes quite that often it would be more work than it's worth IMHO.

  • "Load" option directly from the menu would be nice, rather than have to quit and then load.

  • "Restart" to restart the map with the same settings.

Would both be nice but I believe this would most likely involve refactoring the entire behind-the-scenes framework, and I rather doubt anyone will want to try that.

  • "Game info" to open a screen which simply lists what the launch settings were. Such as the map name, the win condition, AI settings, and starting conditions.

+1


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Tribal-Chief
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Joined: 2018-12-09, 17:16
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Posted at: 2020-04-07, 10:17

Definatlt playing discovery. I played Frisians and there was an AI Frisians player. It seems the programme decided all the Frisian ships were mine to control, they were all my colour. I sent 3 to build ports then found a fourth ship I could control so it built a port as well, wares and workers were being swapped around as I added buildings, I also found a fifth and sixth expedition. At some point, possibly after the 3 ships from one team had built ports the programme decided the other three ships were a different player and stopped sharing wares and workers between the two. All the builders were in one group all the wares were in another, builders were waiting for logs to finish sites but logs were piling up in the other economy they were not being sent where they were needed, hence my assumption it was now a separate economy/player though I had some control like adding new building sites, but no spare builders or wares.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2020-04-07, 10:26

Tribal-Chief wrote:

Definatlt playing discovery. I played Frisians and there was an AI Frisians player. It seems the programme decided all the Frisian ships were mine to control, they were all my colour. I sent 3 to build ports then found a fourth ship I could control so it built a port as well, wares and workers were being swapped around as I added buildings, I also found a fifth and sixth expedition. At some point, possibly after the 3 ships from one team had built ports the programme decided the other three ships were a different player and stopped sharing wares and workers between the two. All the builders were in one group all the wares were in another, builders were waiting for logs to finish sites but logs were piling up in the other economy they were not being sent where they were needed, hence my assumption it was now a separate economy/player though I had some control like adding new building sites, but no spare builders or wares.

Could you provide us with a savegame/replay together with the version/commit you used?


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2020-04-07, 10:27

Okay… very strange. I just tried out a 3-players game, all frisians with Discovery and everything worked as it should. Do you have a replay for this bug?

Edit: Crossposted face-grin.png

Edited: 2020-04-07, 10:28

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