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Topic: Making wild animals reproducible

simplypeachy
Joined: 2009-04-23, 12:42
Posts: 142
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Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted at: 2020-03-31, 16:26

JanO wrote:

We have to figure a way out how to make the gamekeepers not obsolete. Otherwise we have created a disadvantage for barbarians here.
My proposal: Let players choose, if gamekeepers breed herbivores, carnivores or both.

Perhaps it's worth reconsidering this feature, now that these issues are coming to light. It's a cool idea but how does it benefit the game or its enjoyability?


I need less fish :-(
Update: I definitely need less fish :-((
_aD on IRC

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1891
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-03-31, 17:14

simplypeachy wrote:

It's a cool idea

Yes face-smile.png

but how does it benefit the game or its enjoyability?

I don't think it benefits both. Probably it makes more problems than benefits face-sad.png


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2020-03-31, 19:28

The only problem it makes is balancing it well face-wink.png

hessenfarmer wrote:

after some tests Nordfriese created an algorithm which is not running away but delivers a decent increase in critters available.
I did some tests on crater with the following setup:
barbarians, 6 hunters, 3 farms, 1 quarry, 1 woodcutter, 1 metalworkshop.
this delivered 81 meat after 1 hour in trunk with only little game left
in the branch of the PR it delivered 98 meat after 1 hour with still a good amount of game left.

Question is whether this affects balancing too much. I am unsure about this but tend to believe it to be ok. Opinions?

In my opinion these testing results are pretty well balanced. A small advantage for all tribes, but not a big one.

If barbarians are found to be underpowered now, how about making their hunters faster than other tribes' in recompense so they also benefit more from maps with much game?


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 1439
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Posted at: 2020-03-31, 20:11

Nordfriese wrote:

The only problem it makes is balancing it well face-wink.png

If barbarians are found to be underpowered now, how about making their hunters faster than other tribes' in recompense so they also benefit more from maps with much game?

+1 from my side I think we could reduce sleep from 35s to 30s for barbarian hunters


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 497
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Posted at: 2020-03-31, 20:38

yes, but 5 seconds in the sleeping time is not really equivalent ;-D we should not reduce to much sleeping times cause streets get more and more overloaded -> rather the other way around to longer sleeping times or of course balance it my military


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simplypeachy
Joined: 2009-04-23, 12:42
Posts: 142
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Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted at: 2020-03-31, 21:30

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

The only problem it makes is balancing it well face-wink.png

If barbarians are found to be underpowered now, how about making their hunters faster than other tribes' in recompense so they also benefit more from maps with much game?

+1 from my side I think we could reduce sleep from 35s to 30s for barbarian hunters

Will the Gamekeepers need to also have their sleep time reduced, for instances where wild game is not abundant?

With the Barbarians then having a faster food production chain, should this also affect the speed of Empire piggeries, hunters and fishers, and Atlantean equivalents? The complex economy of the Frisians may need more complex considerations to ensure balance.


I need less fish :-(
Update: I definitely need less fish :-((
_aD on IRC

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1891
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Posted at: 2020-03-31, 23:14

Nordfriese wrote:

The only problem it makes is balancing it well face-wink.png

No face-smile.png

The point is: It is absolutely interesting from a programmer perspective. But for a player this is out of scope. I think most new players didn't realize that reproducible animals are there, whereas most new players understand that hunting animals will stop if all animals are hunted.

Please keep in mind that mostly programmer perspective != player perspective. The game is made for the players, not the programmers face-wink.png If a new feature satisfies the programmer but the player does not notice the new feature, the feature is meaningless, imho.

Edit: A meaningless feature just blows up the code without a reason.

Edited: 2020-03-31, 23:25

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blind3rdeye
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Joined: 2020-03-26, 08:47
Posts: 46
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2020-04-01, 00:04

On a somewhat related note, would it be possible to make fish spread a small number to adjacent plots when the population is very high?

The reason I ask, is that I was playing a game on build 20, and I had 2 fish-breaders directly next to each other, one said "no more fish" and the other said "the breading ground is full". To me that seems a bit silly Surely if the breading ground is full, or close to full, then it could spill a couple of fish to adjacent plots. I'm thinking something like this:

if (fish_on_this_plot > 0.95*max) and (fish_on_neighbouring_plot < 0.05*max) then spawn on neighbouring plot instead of this plot

Edited: 2020-04-01, 00:05

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2020-04-01, 09:15

simplypeachy wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

The only problem it makes is balancing it well face-wink.png

If barbarians are found to be underpowered now, how about making their hunters faster than other tribes' in recompense so they also benefit more from maps with much game?

+1 from my side I think we could reduce sleep from 35s to 30s for barbarian hunters

Will the Gamekeepers need to also have their sleep time reduced, for instances where wild game is not abundant?

I think this wouldn't be needed, but could be done. you could always build one additional keeper as they are cheap and by this make use of the breeding.

With the Barbarians then having a faster food production chain, should this also affect the speed of Empire piggeries, hunters and fishers, and Atlantean equivalents? The complex economy of the Frisians may need more complex considerations to ensure balance.

No the other tribes will have already an advantage on maps where this effect takes place, due to the supply of cheap food.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2020-04-01, 09:33

blind3rdeye wrote:

On a somewhat related note, would it be possible to make fish spread a small number to adjacent plots when the population is very high?

The reason I ask, is that I was playing a game on build 20, and I had 2 fish-breaders directly next to each other, one said "no more fish" and the other said "the breading ground is full". To me that seems a bit silly Surely if the breading ground is full, or close to full, then it could spill a couple of fish to adjacent plots. I'm thinking something like this:

if (fish_on_this_plot > 0.95*max) and (fish_on_neighbouring_plot < 0.05*max) then spawn on neighbouring plot instead of this plot

That should not happen anymore and even in b20 should have been an absolute cornercase. However as far as I know in current trunk we can breed on empty grounds where once fish has been, And breeeding is picking a random field around a node already.


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