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Topic: Starting condition "Discoverer"

Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 12:39

I´m currently implementing configurable expeditions. However, to create this starting condition, ships have a bit too little space. They need masses of resources for building a port. This leaves only 9 slots free for a barbarian ship, 13 for atl, 11 for emp and 6 for fri.

Suggestions:

  • Tell me what wares and workers to put on the ship initially to be able to play with 9/13/11/6 wares/workers (plus the builder, who is not counted there)

  • Decrease port buildcosts

  • Increase ship capacity (currently 30 for all tribes)

  • Magically give the player some wares when the initial port is complete (eek, kind of defeats the logic behind this starting condition IMHO)


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 13:00

Nordfriese wrote:

I´m currently implementing configurable expeditions. However, to create this starting condition, ships have a bit too little space. They need masses of resources for building a port. This leaves only 9 slots free for a barbarian ship, 13 for atl, 11 for emp and 6 for fri.

Suggestions:

  • Tell me what wares and workers to put on the ship initially to be able to play with 9/13/11/6 wares/workers (plus the builder, who is not counted there)

It's impossible, because a Frisian brick kiln alone costs 7 wares.

  • Magically give the player some wares when the initial port is complete (eek, kind of defeats the logic behind this starting condition IMHO)

Maybe not completely logical, but the best solution. I also thought about additional ships which store wares, but currently they would just idle until the port is completed, so one would have to wait until they arrive...


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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JanO
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Joined: 2015-08-02, 11:56
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 14:43

Maybe give woodcutters the possibility to use the port (or even each warehouse) as their home/workplace.

Or have a smaller type of port as first building.

Or have the ship as warehouse, so there is no need to build a port as first building.

Or dismantle the ship to get some basic materials.

Edited: 2019-06-21, 14:43

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 17:26

Implement multiple ship types into the engine, or allow changing the capacity via Lua. This way, the starting ship could have a bigger capacity than normal ships.

Or start the game with a fleet of 2 ships.


Busy indexing nil values

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 18:11

GunChleoc wrote:

Implement multiple ship types into the engine, or allow changing the capacity via Lua. This way, the starting ship could have a bigger capacity than normal ships.

Also a good idea

Or start the game with a fleet of 2 ships.

Both ships could be expedition ships, and if one completes a port, then the other can cancel its expedition, it goes then to the new port and unloads everything.

Edited: 2019-06-21, 18:12

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-06-21, 21:17

Lots of good suggestions here face-smile.png

Most are quite hard to implement, I now went for that one:

allow changing the capacity via Lua. This way, the starting ship could have a bigger capacity than normal ships

I now gave the starting ship a capacity of 50 and load it with the following items (untested)

Atlanteans
      log = 7,
      granite = 5,
      planks = 4,
      spidercloth = 1,
      iron = 2,
      atlanteans_stonecutter = 1,
      atlanteans_woodcutter = 1,
      atlanteans_forester = 1,
      atlanteans_geologist = 1,
      atlanteans_miner = 3,
      atlanteans_smelter = 1,
      atlanteans_toolsmith = 1,
      atlanteans_baker = 1,
      atlanteans_smoker = 1,
      atlanteans_fisher = 1,
      atlanteans_soldier = 1,
Barbarians
      log = 7,
      granite = 2,
      blackwood = 2,
      grout = 2,
      iron = 2,
      barbarians_stonemason = 1,
      barbarians_lumberjack = 1,
      barbarians_ranger = 1,
      barbarians_gardener = 1,
      barbarians_geologist = 1,
      barbarians_miner = 2,
      barbarians_smelter = 1,
      barbarians_blacksmith = 1,
      barbarians_innkeeper = 1,
      barbarians_fisher = 1,
      barbarians_soldier = 1,
Empire
      log = 6,
      granite = 3,
      planks = 4,
      marble = 4,
      iron = 2,
      empire_stonemason = 1,
      empire_lumberjack = 1,
      empire_forester = 1,
      empire_geologist = 1,
      empire_miner = 2,
      empire_smelter = 1,
      empire_toolsmith = 1,
      empire_innkeeper = 1,
      empire_fisher = 1,
      empire_soldier = 1,
Frisians
      log = 6,
      granite = 2,
      brick = 7,
      reed = 6,
      iron = 2,
      frisians_stonemason = 1,
      frisians_woodcutter = 1,
      frisians_forester = 1,
      frisians_brickmaker = 1,
      frisians_reed_farmer = 1,
      frisians_geologist = 1,
      frisians_miner = 2,
      frisians_smelter = 1,
      frisians_blacksmith = 1,
      frisians_smoker = 1,
      frisians_fisher = 1,
      frisians_soldier = 1,

plus the port buildcost and a builder. Just a few basic building materials, essential workers for building supply and a simple mining infrastructure, some iron for the first tools, and one soldier for expansion.
I´d like to keep the needed total capacity on the ship <= 50.

Improvement suggestions are very welcome face-smile.png


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Tribal-Chief
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Joined: 2018-12-09, 17:16
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Posted at: 2019-06-22, 10:18

The suggested starting wares are very similar to my hardcore start settings, I do not have any start iron though and this seems to cause problems for me on some maps. The Frisian settings above might be a problem, having fewer logs might be a greter hinderance. As Frisians need coal to make bricks, and bricks are needed everywhere, it means they must make a charcoal kiln early on which uses a lot of wood. If you build the brick kiln and charcoal kiln first there is one brick left for everything else, building them two and a woodcuter leaves enough wood for 1 coal but you also need to build a well and claypit and you do not have enough brick or logs. Increasing logs and bricks by 1 might help or giving 2 coal and 2 water (or clay) which would allow more brick production as well as logs and stone.

The settings will need testing.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2019-06-22, 10:48

Tribal-Chief wrote:

The Frisian settings above might be a problem, having fewer logs might be a greter hinderance. As Frisians need coal to make bricks, and bricks are needed everywhere, it means they must make a charcoal kiln early on which uses a lot of wood. If you build the brick kiln and charcoal kiln first there is one brick left for everything else, building them two and a woodcuter leaves enough wood for 1 coal but you also need to build a well and claypit and you do not have enough brick or logs. Increasing logs and bricks by 1 might help or giving 2 coal and 2 water (or clay) which would allow more brick production as well as logs and stone.

The settings will need testing.

this seems a problem with the frisians, not the setting


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2019-06-22, 16:23

You´re right, frisian buildings are so expensive that a capacity of 50 isn´t enough. I increased it to 65 and now give these wares:

      log = 4,
      granite = 2,
      brick = 8,
      coal = 4,
      reed = 5,
      iron = 2,
      frisians_stonemason = 1,
      frisians_woodcutter = 1,
      frisians_forester = 1,
      frisians_brickmaker = 1,
      frisians_claydigger = 1,
      frisians_reed_farmer = 1,
      frisians_geologist = 1,
      frisians_miner = 1,
      frisians_smelter = 1,
      frisians_blacksmith = 1,
      frisians_landlady = 1,
      frisians_smoker = 1,
      frisians_fisher = 1,
      frisians_soldier = 1,

This is tricky but sufficient, I tested it. Tested barbarians as well and they work, though they require a lot of micromanagement. That will probably also be the case for emp and atl which I´ll test next.
So this starting condition is aimed at experienced players and can be considered almost hardcore, just to clarify.


Edit: For atlanteans, I added one of each: atlanteans_sawyer, atlanteans_blackroot_farmer, atlanteans_farmer and atlanteans_spiderbreeder. Capacity had to be increased to 55. Now they work as well, and are easier than barbarians or frisians.

Edited: 2019-06-22, 18:47

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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 287
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Posted at: 2020-02-10, 11:38

Very nice idea - I think its important that you can start with three ships in order to make a nice settling experience.

It would be really great if we could get this mode done. See also (just for explaining idea a little bit more:)

https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/4766/?page=1#post-31427

I just had an idea of ​​a varied new game mode that offers the feeling of settling or bustling completely new possibilities. You start with 3 ships, we can actually use all our cards that have water around them or of course form a beautiful archipelago. Each player can then choose 3 locations where they can build a port as usual via the menu if they have moored there with the ships. Next comes an incredibly exciting settlement, I've tried it a lot the last few days, always building a port / shipyard first, which all in all takes a long time. You now settle on the three locations, send iron back and forth, and slowly but steadily expand your settlement, contacts with other players are much more exciting because you no longer just clumsily attack or simply come across a border, but because you have to think a lot more. I am excited about this new game mode. Settling has never been so beautiful. Mir kam gerade eine Idee von einem abwechslungsreichen neunen Spielmodus, der das Gefühl des Siedelns oder Wuselns ganz neue Möglichkeiten bietet. Man startet mit 3 Schiffen, dazu können wir eigentlich alle unsere Karten gut nutzen, die Wasser drum herum haben oder natürlich auch ein schönes Archipel bilden. Daraufhin kann jeder Spieler 3 Standorte aussuchen, an denen er wie gewohnt über das Menü einen Hafen bauen kann, wenn er mit den Schiffen dort angelegt hat. Als nächstes kommt ein unglaublich spannendes Siedeln, ich habe es die letzten Tage oft ausprobiert, dabei jeweils immer erst Hafen / Werft errichtet, was allem in allem doch lange dauert. Man siedelt nun auf den drei Standorten, sendet Eisen hin und her, und baut langsam aber stetig seine Siedlung aus, Kontakte mit anderen Spielern verlaufen viel spannender, weil man nicht mehr nur plump angreift, bzw. einfach auf ne Grenze stößt, sondern weil man viel mehr überlegen muss. Ich bin begeistert von diesem neuen Spielmodus. So schön war Siedeln noch nie.


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