Important Dates

Currently Online

Latest Posts

Topic: Transportation system bug (& some more)

einstein13
Avatar
Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1107
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 00:50

I don't know what to say.
First, I have to apologize king_of_nowhere: You were right about the transportation system problems. In my The Nile game I have reached point of complexity where even best transportation system fails. Why it fails? Because of some kind of bugs.

For example here:

You can see "infinite port queue" and "no destination wares" at once.

Infinite port queue

This is not a direct bug. And it was before. If dozens of ships are going with wares to one port, it will try to push the wares away. but it is impossible to do with standard roads (finite capacity). So after a while of shipping wares, you will receive long queue of wares which can damage your economy.

There is no direct solution of this situation, except treating the port which has long queue enough as a traffic jam. Further wares should avoid this place as a route. From my perspective limit of 64 wares in the queue should be a top of possibilities.

No destination wares

This is rather twisted bug from my perspective. A ware was going to the port, then it was taken away from it and then it goes back to the port. Why? On this screenshot you can see couple of breads that should go to my inns (which are quite far from this port, but they are on the way. So the breads should be taken left by carriers or donkeys, but they aren't. To clarify: This port don't store anything! It is just a traffic junction between water and land.

More twisted situation is when the wares suddenly changes their routes and they are causing terrible unwrappable knot. It is mentioned here.

BONUS: Soldiers creation regression

Also I have to confirm another king_of_nowhere notice (here): my barracks don't work even if my economy needs soldiers. How can I know that? I have empty colloseums which aren't working because of lack of soldiers. And all my soldiers are in one place. So in conclusion, I need new soldiers and they aren't produced at all.

In build 19 (no barracks) in such a situation, my warehouse produced new soldier which was going directly to the colloseum. In current trunk build I have to manually set soldier number in economy to a high value which allows to build more soldiers. Second solution is to build some military buildings that will artificially create demand for soldiers (and absorb some of them).

My solution is to allow training buildings to make real demand for soldiers in the economy. Current situation when only military buildings does that is a problem.

Conclusion

I want to start short discussion before I will make a bug reports on Launchpad. Do you think that something should be changed here? How can we reproduce the bugs? (especially this transportation twist one) How can we solve the situations? Maybe you have some more notices here?


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1525
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 01:07

I am not a programmer, so don't know much of relative difficulty, but treating cramped ports as traffic jams and asking wares to be redirected elsewhere would be a start. I noticed that it there are two close ports wares only go to one of them, even if it is stuck. Maybe it it counted as traffic jam they would chooose the other port?

Also, I noticed that if there are several roads going out from a port, often the secondary ones are ignored. Again, treating a full port as a traffic jam may fix it.

No idea about the no destination wares, I never noticed them (or, I could always assume other explanations)


Top Quote
einstein13
Avatar
Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1107
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 01:13

I suppose that "no destination wares" is a variation of your bug (screenshot was mentioned here, better explanation of your situation was here). So somehow wares on roads or ports suddenly changes their paths to a strange ones (from human point of view).


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

Top Quote
GunChleoc
Avatar
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3159
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 12:52

I agree that trainingsites should make economy requests for the number of currently unoccupied soldier slots they have.

Pathfinding is a harder problem to solve.

Edited: 2018-04-09, 12:53

Busy indexing nil values

Top Quote
Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1317
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 15:57

I dont play much, but my presumption is that if there is a target for soldiers - it applies to soldiers on stock (in warehouses). So the target of soldier is for all soldiers in economy? So is it reasonable to set it always to 200 or so?


Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1525
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 16:28

Tibor wrote:

I dont play much, but my presumption is that if there is a target for soldiers - it applies to soldiers on stock (in warehouses). So the target of soldier is for all soldiers in economy? So is it reasonable to set it always to 200 or so?

no, it's soldiers in stock. and 200 is huge for any practical situation. in most maps you never need more than 10 or 20. it's better to spend resources in training those you have anyway


Top Quote
Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1317
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 16:32

king_of_nowhere wrote:

Tibor wrote:

I dont play much, but my presumption is that if there is a target for soldiers - it applies to soldiers on stock (in warehouses). So the target of soldier is for all soldiers in economy? So is it reasonable to set it always to 200 or so?

no, it's soldiers in stock.

But this does not match with above description of problem. If trainingcenters have empty slots - than there are no soldiers in warehouse and then any target bigger than 0 will be sufficient, will not be?


Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1525
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 17:09

Tibor wrote:

no, it's soldiers in stock.

But this does not match with above description of problem. If trainingcenters have empty slots - than there are no soldiers in warehouse and then any target bigger than 0 will be sufficient, will not be?

It should be.

Unless there is only one barracks that can't fulfill the requests of the whole economy, or unless said barracks was prevented from working by the aforementioned problems with transportation. Or maybe target soldier was set to 0.

This is a problem I did not face. Soldier production went fine.

Edited: 2018-04-09, 17:09

Top Quote
einstein13
Avatar
Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1107
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2018-04-09, 17:51

I remember discussion of economy settings and target amount = 0. As I remember, if I say that my target for shovels is 0 and I need a forester, my toolsmith will produce this shovel anyway. So I expected the same behaviour for trainingsites. Except that I don't have to set the setting to 0. That is why I think that is a bug.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1525
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2018-04-10, 02:54

what version are you using einstein? mine is 8635 and my soldiers are produced regularly


Top Quote