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Topic: Editor help

kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2015-12-12, 16:40

Maybe i couldn't follow your discussion, but from my point of view the "(Old)" statement should be truncated from the tree name. It has no useful meaning if it stays here and may confuse more than it helps.

Regarding the terrain affinity values: Those are also more confusing if they are in the editor help. In my opinion they belong to the info tool (shortcut "i"). The editor help should be a help for beginners, not for advanced players.

Edit: Numbering of visual equal terrains should be come back.

Edited: 2015-12-12, 16:57

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wl-zocker
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Posted at: 2015-12-12, 17:58

When you can choose in the editor which tree to place, the age of the tree should stay in the name. For some trees, it might be hard to see if they are old or only mature. For consistency, all trees should have such an attribute. This is why I wrote:

Renaming the immovable is bad because in the immovable menu, you still can see all of them.

The problem is that we do never have the tree name "Alder" without attributes; however, this is what should be used in the new help window. A simple truncating of the string is not possible because of the translations. I see in general two ways to achieve this:

  • Seperate the trees from their attribute by using placeholders or something like this. As GunChleoc has pointed out, this might cause translation issues. I am however wondering whether this approach is not possible anyway because languages can put the adjective in a neutral form in parantheses. This would also reduce the amount of strings that have to be translated, and make keeping them consistent easier (e.g. "sapling" is translated to "Jeune arbre" and "jeune arbre" in French).
  • Add a general name to the trees which can be used when their age is not important. This would mean even more strings to translate and is more unflexible to possible future changes.

kaputtnik wrote: Regarding the terrain affinity values: Those are also more confusing if they are in the editor help. In my opinion they belong to the info tool (shortcut "i"). The editor help should be a help for beginners, not for advanced players.

We should discuss who is the target group for this information window, and which information are appropriate. Furthermore, the information which terrains are good for trees (in general, no specification for different tree species needed) could be interesting during playing, too; whereas the other tab (which terrain is good for alders) is not important.


"Only few people know how much one has to know in order to know how little one knows." - Werner Heisenberg

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-12-13, 09:58

wl-zocker wrote:

  • Seperate the trees from their attribute by using placeholders or something like this. As GunChleoc has pointed out, this might cause translation issues. I am however wondering whether this approach is not possible anyway because languages can put the adjective in a neutral form in parantheses. This would also reduce the amount of strings that have to be translated, and make keeping them consistent easier (e.g. "sapling" is translated to "Jeune arbre" and "jeune arbre" in French).

This won't work, because the engine can't do fancy stuff on strings for the descname. If we add a %s here, we will have to add it to all immovables.

What we might do is add another variable _"%s (Old)" etc. with %s being the tree name. It will create problems with my translations though, because I have a special word for saplings - other languages might have the same problem. My 4 translations for "Alder" are:

  • Fiùran feàrna
  • Craobhag-fheàrna
  • Craobh-fheàrna inbheach
  • Seann chraobh-fheàrna

I could work around this, but the translation would be less elegant.

  • Add a general name to the trees which can be used when their age is not important. This would mean even more strings to translate and is more unflexible to possible future changes.

We could add that to the Old trees only, no problem.


Busy indexing nil values

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-12-13, 13:52

Final screenshots for this year. Please feel free to play with this branch while I'm gone, e.g. we still need to write tests and to sort the terrains/trees in Lua by percentage.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2015-12-13, 15:25

Nice one.

But, if I must be a perfectionist - and keeping in mind that perfectionism is the enemy of good, and that it's better to make some small improvement than to make no improvemment because you want to do it even better - it would be even better if the terrains under a trees, and the trees under a terrain, would be ordered according to their affinity. I mean, it should display like

ashes

trees that may grow

  • cirrus tree 37.5%
  • liana tree 31.9%
  • green mushroom tree 10.4%
  • ...

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-12-13, 17:14

.... which is exactly what I mean by " and to sort the terrains/trees in Lua by percentage." face-wink.png


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wl-zocker
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Posted at: 2015-12-20, 11:52

… and which I have just added. face-smile.png


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2015-12-20, 13:38

Great, wl_zocker face-smile.png

We must consider to omit terrains where tree have a minimal chance to grow. As a strange example here are dead terrains, f.e.:

  • "Lava (Summer)" and "No trees will grow here".

Is there a need to have those terrains in the list? Same goes for all water terrains:

  • "Water (Summer)" -> "Oak, probability to grow 1,9%"

Yes, i know each terrain has influence about the possibility to grow of neighboring terrains. But in my opinion the help couldn't show all information.

I would suggest to show only those terrains where trees have a probability to grow about >50%. All others are of no interest related to trees i think.


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wl-zocker
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Posted at: 2015-12-20, 15:33

I have no problem with the dead terrains saying that no trees will grow. They're terrains in the game, and we should list them. What I found strange are the water terrains where trees can grow. This could make players think that trees sprout in the middle of the ocean. Maybe we could solve this by simply increasing the threshold from 1% to 5%?

If not all terrains are shown in the left list, this would have to be done in C++, I think.


"Only few people know how much one has to know in order to know how little one knows." - Werner Heisenberg

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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2015-12-20, 16:56

wl-zocker wrote:

If not all terrains are shown in the left list, this would have to be done in C++, I think.

Yes, i meant the left list when terrain tab is open. I think if this should be a help for map designers, its better to have less terrains in the list by omitting terrains where trees do not grow well. For dead terrains it should already be clear by the skull icon in terrain menu. And for water or ice floes (probability to grow for spruce: 1,9%) it should be clear also. And: It is not possible to place trees on water, ice floes, swamp or dead terrains so why should those terrains be in the list?

Edited: 2015-12-20, 16:58

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