Topic: Training sites

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einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1116 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 21:00 UTC+1.0 Tibor wrote: So to summarize one trainer is given on game start trainers in all tribes needs a helmet AND a spear correct? I'm not sure if there is given on game start for Empire I'm not sure if all tribes needs a helmet. I know that it was set that a soldier = a trainer (tools of course!) So if you need a helmet for barbarian, it will be needed for a trainer too. If not - no. training centers have quite hight capacity for soldiers - would it make any difference if I reduce the capacity to 2 - 3 or 4 soldiers? For sure in most cases it will be the best! I usually set up to 1 soldier to upgrade only him with whole economy power. Then if everything is ok* OR training site is very far I use 2 soldiers. Few times I used full colloseum status - only for seafaring maps with low water transport efficiency. But basicly 2 soldiers is the best number for my strategies Reducint the number is always better! If the capacity for training site (armors, weapons) is X the biggest number of soldiers inside should be X (I would implement in that way). -> * full of resources AND half upgraded soldier einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 21:11 UTC+1.0 So It would be OK if I set capacity 2 soldiers for all training sites... Also how many training sites are needed? In dependency to number of militarysites f.e.... Top Quote

GunChleoc Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56 UTC+2.0 Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 21:26 UTC+1.0 The tools a trainer need are defined in their config files: Atlanteans https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/trunk/view/head:/tribes/atlanteans/trainer/conf `[buildcost] carrier=1 light_trident=1 tabard=1` Barbarians https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/trunk/view/head:/tribes/barbarians/trainer/conf `[buildcost] carrier=1 ax=1` Empire https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/trunk/view/head:/tribes/empire/trainer/conf `[buildcost] carrier=1 helm=1 wood_lance=1` How many trainers a player gets at the beginning of the game depends on the starting conditions, e.g. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/trunk/view/head:/tribes/atlanteans/scripting/sc00_headquarters.lua Busy indexing nil values Top Quote

wl-zocker Joined: 2011-12-30, 17:37 UTC+1.0 Posts: 492 Tribe Member Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 21:43 UTC+1.0 No tribe has a trainer at the beginning. I did not change that when I modified the build costs of trainers (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/669699) - I think I forgot/did not think of that. You should also have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1422158. A trainer needs exactly the tools/weapons a soldier needs. That is: Barbarians: an axe. Empire: wooden lance + helmet. Atlanteans: light trident + tabard. I always build new training sites when the existing once are full of soldiers, weapons, and food. Maybe you could use the statistics (the official or your own one) for that. "Only few people know how much one has to know in order to know how little one knows." - Werner Heisenberg Top Quote

Tibor Topic Opener Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24 UTC+1.0 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2015-03-15, 22:51 UTC+1.0 That is quite complicated. I think I will just implement a policy - do not built next trainingsite if there is one unoccupied (by trainer). Second policy would be one pair of trainingsites per 100 military sites ... And third rule would be - set number of soldiers to 2 per a training site ... Of course not smartest way, but easy to implement.. Edited: 2015-03-15, 23:29 UTC+1.0 Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-03-16, 00:01 UTC+1.0 Tibor wrote: That is quite complicated. I think I will just implement a policy - do not built next trainingsite if there is one unoccupied (by trainer). Second policy would be one pair of trainingsites per 100 military sites ... And third rule would be - set number of soldiers to 2 per a training site ... Of course not smartest way, but easy to implement.. Wrong to set number of training sites per nummber of military sites. having more barracks around the map does not imply in any way a need for more training sites, nor does it allow to support them. new military sites should be built when there are enough resources for them. say, if your weapon smiths skips work because there are unused weapons, then it is good time to make new military site. I'd say a good time to make second site is when you make second weapon smith, but ai is fully capable of making two weapon smmiths when it doesn't have the resources to use one. Top Quote

GunChleoc Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56 UTC+2.0 Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect	Posted at: 2015-03-16, 10:38 UTC+1.0 I think the availability of trainers before soldiers should be fixed in the warehouse code and not in the AI code, because it affects human players too. I added a comment to the bug. Busy indexing nil values Top Quote

fk Joined: 2013-07-30, 22:58 UTC+2.0 Posts: 150 At home in WL-forums	Posted at: 2015-03-17, 08:48 UTC+1.0 The training sites become more efficient if the internal value (this requires compilation) is set to upgrade heroes first instead of rookies first. Empire hardly creates new soldiers if helmets go to the training camp. I set the number of soldiers to two, but also reduce the amount of weapons/armour, or set the number of helmets completely to zero. In most games I need 3 weapon smiths per training camp. The empire requires extra armour smiths if you both want to create new soldiers and upgrade existing soldiers with health points. A second training camp: not in one game I have seen this work properly, so perhaps this is only suitable for really hugh maps after 10 hours or more. do not built next trainingsite if there is one unoccupied (by trainer) That rule already exists (or existed?). Top Quote

fk Joined: 2013-07-30, 22:58 UTC+2.0 Posts: 150 At home in WL-forums	Posted at: 2015-03-17, 08:54 UTC+1.0 Actually, deciding not to build whatever building if one is unoccupied is a wrong approach. Imagine that one building is still unoccupied, and another player manages to isolate that building from the rest of its economy. This would be even worse for military sites. Hard rules are therefore always wrong. Better is the positive rule: yes, we have a trainer, build! Top Quote

einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01 UTC+2.0 Posts: 1116 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2015-03-17, 09:33 UTC+1.0 In most games I need 3 weapon smiths per training camp. The empire requires extra armour smiths if you both want to create new soldiers and upgrade existing soldiers with health points. I have N trainingscamps and N+1 armour and weapon smiths. It is enough if working for 100%. Also I reduce the number of creating soldiers by setting spears to one warehouse and helmets to the other one. But I'm not sure if it is possible to implement in current model, plus if it is worth doing that. A second training camp: not in one game I have seen this work properly, so perhaps this is only suitable for really hugh maps after 10 hours or more. On huge map I can easily have 4 trainingscamps working for 100%. But the capacity for soldiers there is always set to "1". einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

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