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Topic: Horses either don't eat Cereals or die

Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
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Posted at: 2013-05-01, 11:33

In WL breeding Horses (and Cows, etc) take Cereals - but in RL Horses get Collics from Cereals and can even die from and even a Hand full Oats gets considered from Horse-Owner to be problematical ("better give a Carrot or Apple than Oat or other Cereals".) The brief Problem: In WL Horses (and other Ruminants) get feeded with a Food which is lethal to that Species. Solution is rather simple: Farm to harvest Hay for Horses, Donkeys, Cows.

Edited: 2013-05-01, 11:53

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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simplypeachy
Joined: 2009-04-23, 12:42
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Posted at: 2013-05-01, 16:45

Brewers can't make beer using just water and wheat. Bakers cannot make bread using just flour and water. Pig-keepers cannot feed pigs using only wheat and water. Donkeys cannot be born just because a donkey was given wheat and water. A forester cannot plant trees with only a shovel.

There are lots of ways Widelands doesn't follow reality and none of them make it any less enjoyable. There's no reason to add complexity just for animals when we could add complexity to every single building - but it is unnecessary and doesn't contribute to the game!


I need less fish :-(
Update: I definitely need less fish :-((
_aD on IRC

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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
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Posted at: 2013-05-01, 17:11

Reet for Roofs is same useless. I don't agree as Hay&Grass is BaseFood for Ruminants and there run a Lot. BlackRoot and Wheat for Atlantean suffers from same "Problem". Well, we may feed Horses with Cereals or build a Car from CocoNuts - that contributes. Realiy doesn't Matter was your Point, wasn't it?


Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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Nasenbaer
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Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
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Posted at: 2013-05-01, 21:21

Adamant wrote: Reet for Roofs is same useless.

Is it? Take a look here.

Concerning wheat vs. litter - You are most probably right - however I agree with simplypeachy that there is no need to make the game even more complex just for that. Even more I don't see a problem at all. Of course the ware is named "wheat", however if you take a closer look at the image - it's yet untrashed wheat - so wheat with straw...

Edited: 2013-05-01, 21:21
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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
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Posted at: 2013-05-02, 14:56

Reet is useful - sure. Same useful is Grass/Hay to feed Ruminants. Reet as technological Material is rather limited inside the ProductionChain: You can grow and harvest it and put it into Storage resp take to construct Buildings. Same Complexity is given for Hay. Grow, harvest, feed Ruminants. I don't understand the Complexity-Argument here. Wheat is Cereal and Straw not Hay even it's anyway close related.

added:

Nasenbear wrote: Of course the ware is named "wheat", however if you take a closer look at the image - it's yet untrashed wheat - so wheat with straw...

No Owner of Cattles or Horses or Donkeys feed them with Straw or Cereals due to they like their Animals. We can go well with urban Civilization if we feed Horses with Wheat (or even CocoNuts) but in Reality we can feed them as well with Meat - their DigestSystem won't master that Food as it's really specialized to Grass (resp Hay). We can accept that Fact without implying to correct it by supplying a Hay-Farm but Fact is that Ruminants especially Horses die not broadly well known very evily (half Way of E605 as they die with extreme Spasm) when feed with Cereals. From factual Point we could perhaps feed Horses as well with E605 causing similar Effects - just People which may never saw a Horse in RL would consider that to be clearly "dangerous". RL don't matter, ey? That doesn't taste, does it? Let's take Cereals and nobody cares.

Edited: 2013-05-02, 16:05

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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QCS
Joined: 2009-12-29, 22:47
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Posted at: 2013-05-02, 19:34

Adamant wrote: No Owner of Cattles or Horses or Donkeys feed them with Straw or Cereals due to they like their Animals.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wheat+straw+horse+food

And everyone who knows horse owners also knows about at least one of them eating their own bedding... which is commonly straw, even wheat straw. The horse might need more nutrition from other sources, but that's the same with cows and spiders and... well. Your argument is not very valid. Sorry =:-D


CMake is evil.

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simplypeachy
Joined: 2009-04-23, 12:42
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Posted at: 2013-05-02, 21:02

I think people need to realise that the point isn't what real horses eat or don't eat. It's that Widelands isn't a reality simulator. This is by design face-smile.png


I need less fish :-(
Update: I definitely need less fish :-((
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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
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Posted at: 2013-05-03, 14:46

QCS wrote: And everyone who knows horse owners also knows about at least one of them eating their own bedding... which is commonly straw, even wheat straw. The horse might need more nutrition from other sources, but that's the same with cows and spiders and... well. Your argument is not very valid. Sorry =face-grin.png

I did eat one Time a Tissue and are still alive. What does it mean? I never heard Farmer selling Food-Straw but Food-Hay. Perhaps I can live the American Dream now selling cheap Straw as rough Food-Hay? Your Confutation failed. The confuting Question is "Can you feed a Horse with Straw and or Cereals (and Water only)?" My Inet-Rechderge resulted in 'Horses need Grass/Hay but not Straw.'. Dry firm Straw can harm the Rumina mechanical. If the Straw absorbed Humidity and got "milled" by the Hoofs from the Animal its dangerous Properties get moderated. I'm not sure what this meant in Nutrients for the Horse but they would eat also Cereals if you give them and if they just don't die from their Stable Straw that doesn't mean they can live from healthy. I did eat Potato-Chips but I wouldn't try to live from. I did not say they die from eating Straw but from eating Cereals. I consider my Argument nevertheless as valid.

simplypeachy wrote: I think people need to realise that the point isn't what real horses eat or don't eat.

Would not that be a Point we could feed with E605 or build Engines from CocoNut. IS it or is it not?

It's that Widelands isn't a reality simulator.

I hope that mean that if we take Grass for Feeding we get critical close to Reality. The Matter of Feeding Ruminants with overpowered Food is covered by Quasi-Term 'Rumina-Homicide' (used from Breeders).

Reverse I want to make a Point clear as well: I don't say WL shall be or get a Reality-Simulator. If somebody makes a Suggestion or Critique due to there is something "very different to Reality" (like the Engine build from CocoNuts) than the Reply that WL is not a Reality-Engine anyway very curious.

This is by design

It sounds somewhat like "WL shall not be a Reality-Simulator" as predefined DesignCharacteristic. Well, .. accomplished!

What does it take to fix it?

  • Ware Hay: Icon/Image, CONF
  • Farm (per Tribe), Image can get derivated from modified BaseModel of Farm - Chuck can guess better what that means for Work and Time to downgrade Farm (remove Fence for Animals etc, Barn we don't need if we store at HQ/WH) and Rendering.
  • NO additional FarmerType necessary (but 2 additional Animations for cutting Grass and harvesting Hay) we can afaics put at same Farmer-Type
  • Integration into Economy: add into Tribe and substitute Toke for Ware Wheat/Corn with Hay only in Ruminant-Breeding-Sites (Horse, Donkey, Cattle, Sheep)
  • CrashCourse for Player to master WL's new Complexity (build HayFarms to produce Hay to feed with Ruminants instead Wheat from Farms like before - did any Player complain Problems with?)
Edited: 2013-05-03, 15:13

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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Venatrix
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Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31
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Posted at: 2013-05-03, 16:19

If it’s that easy, why don’t you give it a try and implement it for your own and tell us, how it goes with all the tribes? Esp. the Empire already needs much space for farms etc. so an experience with that tribe would be interesting.


Two is the oddest prime.

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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
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Posted at: 2013-05-03, 17:22

Venatrix If it’s that easy, ...

What additional Difficulties can you identify? Is there any hidden ShowStoper?

I checked out several Things on my own Tribe-Mod(ifications) but not Hay yet due to lost of HardWare. When PC returned operable and Data on HDD got recovered (inclusive those Tribes) I can give it a Try but I won't be able to serve with any (own) ArtWork. I don't expect something

When I can recover that Work I will add Hay/Farm and check out. Btw. If Player don't need Cereal-Farms to feed Ruminants and Breed-Farms use FarmLand around to let there domestic BOB-Horses graze (I can live here without Fence and Driver to keep Animals close Farm face-smile.png outside, then the Player don't need more Area but safe Space for Cereal-Farms without CerealFields inclusive Roads. There were several Objectives defined for that Work like Fusion of (almost all) basic Technologies/Wares/Tools of all 3 Tribes to enable Trading of Goods even the buying Tribe can't use its Purchase (but sell it to another Player). But I still don't have any Idea what I will hear when I power up that HDD firstly ...

At all Case I won't resign for Ware Hay due to Ruminat-Breeding-Farms can resign for due to Grazing as if later may Mounts follow and Supply of Mounts require Hay/Grass/grazing. Mounts mean another "organic Enhancement" for Soldiers like training for Food in a Facility. I'm not a Fan of Eco with Unit without "OperationCosts" OC ("Unit which don't eat".) With OC for Site/Unit/StockKeeping_of_Goods the Amount of Sites/Units/Goods get limited and causes a much more interesting economical Behavior. At Present I can build (and keep in Storage) 10k Horses and none will starve if Storage runs out of (all) Food or I can build 10 closely neighbored Lumberer's Shaft around a single Forsterer's Shaft and Economy won't collapse due to extreme InEffectivitiy.

About SeaTrading: "Wares" need to change into a global Section to allow Trader to trade Items they can't use by self (their Economy/Technology can't use it resp don't support it). I'm not sure why WL needs for Military Sites a global Section resp why Tribe-Sections are not SubSets of GlobalSection.


Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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