Topic: Tournament 2025

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2025-06-23, 17:10 UTC+2.0

I agree with every Suggestion made so far. By such good suggestions I am confident we will have a nice and enjoyable tournament. So keep going with suggestions.

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_Elefantenrennen
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Posted at: 2025-07-04, 11:11 UTC+2.0

I am looking forward to participating in this tournament. However, I will not do any final decisions before it is decided what the format of the tournament will be. Personally, I would like a 2vs2 tournament, but I haven't actually tried the trading system other than playing the tutorial for it.

A very basic idea for a 2vs2 map would be: One player of the team has a lot of coal and little iron, while his teammate has a lot of iron but no coal at all. However, Amazons can then be played to bypass those roadblocks, so you'd have to think about balancing that. Maybe remove all water access from the players? No, then, Atlanteans would be unplayable. There's really a lot to think about.

Another concern I have is that with trading in a team, it's going to be less "trading" and more just "gifting" (trades like 20 iron for 1 log). Also, in a 1v1, it could be that one player just doesn't build a market and so the resources the other player spent to build his market are wasted. The first player can now take advantage of his opponent's few resources and take him down.

What I mean to say is, there's really no perfect way of testing this trading system in a tournament setting. But maybe I just have to try it with an AI first to get a deeper understanding of how it works.

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2025-07-04, 12:18 UTC+2.0

_Elefantenrennen wrote

A very basic idea for a 2vs2 map would be: One player of the team has a lot of coal and little iron, while his teammate has a lot of iron but no coal at all. However, Amazons can then be played to bypass those roadblocks, so you'd have to think about balancing that. Maybe remove all water access from the players? No, then, Atlanteans would be unplayable. There's really a lot to think about.

if it will be a pure 2vs2, playing Amazons in such a setup would be a disadvantage because the team with the amazon player would have to deal with half of its ressources not available. However a good poimnt that did not came to my mind yet.
last ressort would be fixing the tribes but I am not sure yet about this.

Another concern I have is that with trading in a team, it's going to be less "trading" and more just "gifting" (trades like 20 iron for 1 log). Also, in a 1v1, it could be that one player just doesn't build a market and so the resources the other player spent to build his market are wasted. The first player can now take advantage of his opponent's few resources and take him down.

Another good point. So a 1vs1 would only make sense if we have a map that enforces trading. Meaning it needs to be very imbalanced, like one player not having water while the other not having something else. I doubt I can modify a map in this way very quickly.

What I mean to say is, there's really no perfect way of testing this trading system in a tournament setting. But maybe I just have to try it with an AI first to get a deeper understanding of how it works.

Well, currently it seems to me the best way to test this would be a "battle royal" setup. Which leaves me with the problem of how to fit this into the normal score table.

Still I am glad that we are able to discuss these things beforehand rather then doing it "mid tournament", and I am really trying to find a setup that would fit all participants.

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2025-07-04, 15:52 UTC+2.0

You could make it a 2v2 tournament, everyone plays once or twice with everyone else in a team - so this would be 3 or 6 rounds. If there is a 5th player, there could be 5 rounds instead. In each round, one player has a break...

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2025-07-07, 10:22 UTC+2.0

I could imagine to participate in the tournament. What about the following plan? Feel free to suggest changes.

round team 1 team 2 break for map win condition colors
1 K N W E H Calvisson seafaring autocrat blue yellow vs red green
2 E N H K W Full moon (trading) seafaring autocrat blue green vs red yellow
3 H N K W E Long long way v2 seafaring autocrat blue purple vs yellow black
4 K E H W N Icewars seafaring autocrat blue red vs black ocre
5 N W H E K Cycles seafaring autocrat red yellow vs alternative blue and alternative pink

Alternative map: The Nile

Which team picks which colors could still be randomized.

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: Yesterday 20:54 UTC+2.0

So, mid July will be soon but it seems that the idea of my plan is not liked very much. What needs to be changed? Maybe changing maps, for example removing Calvisson and putting in the other map of Oipun?

_Elefantenrennen wrote Maybe remove all water access from the players? No, then, Atlanteans would be unplayable.

Why would they in a 2vs2? face-wink.png

Another concern I have is that with trading in a team, it's going to be less "trading" and more just "gifting" (trades like 20 iron for 1 log).

What would be wrong about that? Gifting is a common thing in strategy games, good that we have it now.

Also, in a 1v1, it could be that one player just doesn't build a market and so the resources the other player spent to build his market are wasted. The first player can now take advantage of his opponent's few resources and take him down.

Why would trading be a thing in 1v1? You will try to make a good trade, but the enemy knows that so he will not accept, normally.

What I mean to say is, there's really no perfect way of testing this trading system in a tournament setting. But maybe I just have to try it with an AI first to get a deeper understanding of how it works.

AFAIK the AI cant trade yet. @ developers : Is that the case?

hessenfarmer wrote

if it will be a pure 2vs2, playing Amazons in such a setup would be a disadvantage because the team with the amazon player would have to deal with half of its ressources not available. However a good poimnt that did not came to my mind yet.
last ressort would be fixing the tribes but I am not sure yet about this.

Sure, Amazons would be a bad trade partner in that situation, but a team of Amazons could be advantaged. At the other hand, maybe an Amazon team could also be disadvantaged because it cant make advantageous cross-tribe trades. Either find out or forbid Amazons on that Fullmoon map.

Another good point. So a 1vs1 would only make sense if we have a map that enforces trading. Meaning it needs to be very imbalanced, like one player not having water while the other not having something else. I doubt I can modify a map in this way very quickly.

Not having water is only bad for Amazons and Atlanteans. If there is enough hunt, Atlanteans can still play.

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: Yesterday 21:24 UTC+2.0

WorldSavior wrote

So, mid July will be soon but it seems that the idea of my plan is not liked very much. What needs to be changed? Maybe changing maps, for example removing Calvisson and putting in the other map of Oipun?

It was never said that your plan is bad. I was and am still unsure whether there might be a better plan.
However as it seems there will be not much more players, it might be the best plan we have so far. And I am especially grateful you came up with it.
For the maps I need to do some testing to make an educated decision. And the real life came up with some distracting activities that cost me lots of time. (I need to spent some time to get my car to get another 2 years of certified life)

AFAIK the AI cant trade yet. @ developers : Is that the case?

they can only accept trades afaik, but won't make any proposals.

hessenfarmer wrote

if it will be a pure 2vs2, playing Amazons in such a setup would be a disadvantage because the team with the amazon player would have to deal with half of its ressources not available. However a good poimnt that did not came to my mind yet.
last ressort would be fixing the tribes but I am not sure yet about this.

Sure, Amazons would be a bad trade partner in that situation, but a team of Amazons could be advantaged. At the other hand, maybe an Amazon team could also be disadvantaged because it cant make advantageous cross-tribe trades. Either find out or forbid Amazons on that Fullmoon map.

As said I need to do some testing.

Furthermore it might be worth waiting another 2 weeks, as the current dev version still has some open bugs which should probably be fixed then.
However, reflecting everything above:
How about a pre tournament test match on the modified full moon next friday evening. Lets say at 19:00 CEST?

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: Today 11:25 UTC+2.0

hessenfarmer wrote And I am especially grateful you came up with it.

You're welcome

AFAIK the AI cant trade yet. @ developers : Is that the case?

they can only accept trades afaik, but won't make any proposals.

Some weeks ago I played with the AI and it didnt even accepted the most generous proposals (exception: trading tutorial). But this could also be a coincidence.

hessenfarmer wrote How about a pre tournament test match on the modified full moon next friday evening. Lets say at 19:00 CEST?

I don't really have time at late friday and saturday evenings - but maybe other players will

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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