Topic: Frisian Balancing

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-05, 23:28 UTC+2.0

Nordfriese wrote:

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that curved swords don't fit to Frisians at all?

I wouldn´t be opposed to changing them to some other type of sword if there is a better suggestion…

without changing the images a renaming to sabre would be possible. However a broadsword sounds to be a probable alternative as well.

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-05-06, 07:06 UTC+2.0

I think the point here is that the sword is curved, and so are sabres. So, we wouldn't gain anything here by renaming it to sabre and keeping the image.

"Broadsword" with a new image would work.

Busy indexing nil values

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Ex-Member
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 Posted at: 2018-05-06, 10:25 UTC+2.0

@Hessenfarmer I am intending to try your branch soon, I am busy at the moment boring myself silly trying to finish a 24 hour nile game.

I am not sure what the objection to curved swords is, they look good to me, and isn't a broadsword just a sort of double edged sword?

I could be happy with 4 cycles for the hunter, after testing maybe 3, but lowing the training is just wrong, if anything all worker training levels are already to low for all tribes. In my opinion starting wares are already way to high for Frisians I usuallt start them with hardcore settings

 wares = {
     log = 3,
     granite = 4,
     thatch_reed = 3,
     brick = 10,
     clay = 3,
     coal = 3,
     water = 2,
     hunting_spear = 1,
     fire_tongs = 1,
     bread_paddle = 1,
     kitchen_tools = 1
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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-06, 14:59 UTC+2.0

the last version of the branch contains already most of the changes Nordfriese suggested. including delivering fur every third cycle but excluding the change in brick production.
@Tinker: I understand that hardcore starting conditions are set to make a single game versus the AI more interesting. The branch however is to improve the performance in multiplayer games versus other tribes. So after we have improved the basic abilities the starting wares could be used to finetune the balance between tribes in the early game. So the issue with the training of the seamstress lasting to long (which delays full training capability) could have been solved by adding 14 fur to the starting wares but I thought the trick with the hunter is more elegant.
I will start a new game with the current settings now and try to get a hero as fast as possible. Meanwhile I will keep an eye on the hunter. I will report back after that.

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-06, 23:20 UTC+2.0

I did two rounds of playtest on "the far north" it took me around 2 hours to produce my first hero. And still then the military trtaining was not running smoothly. I will do a run with barbarians tomorrow to have a benchmark.

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-07, 23:19 UTC+2.0

3rd round same map. This time I managed it in 1:43 also did start the training camp to early the first time and wasted probably 5 to 10 minutes. In this round I discoverd the following things slowing me down.
1. Furnaces are deadly ineffective cause they have a distribution of 50 % smelting iron and 50 % smelting gold this costed me time when no gold was available (10 sec penalty) every second cycle and slowed down me a lot toghether with number 2. Alkl other tribes do it in a ratio of 66% iron and 33% gold (iron,gold,iron).
2. To have a good and steady building material supply to build all of the buildings the frisians need. I built 3 brick kiln, and around 6 claypits. but here is the problem: all of them needed a brickmaker. This was introduced to reduce the number of different workers. But for this reason a brickmaker needs 2 tools (shovel for digging, fire tongs to burn bricks) so in either location a tool and therefore an iron is wasted.

So I'd like to suggest two changes:
1. adapt the working cycle of frisian furnaces to the cycles of all other tribes: namely these are produce iron, produce gold, produce iron.
2. Reintroduce the claydigger needing only a shovel and letting the brickmaker needing only a fire tongs - this would save a lot of metal in the early game.

I will upload a replay of my 1 hour 43 minute run to the bug on launchpad so anybody interested could see what I tried to describe (you need the data dir of the balancing branch to replay that). if further information is needed feel free to ask.

regards hessenfarmer

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Ex-Member
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 Posted at: 2018-05-08, 10:06 UTC+2.0

You might want to look at the work cycles in the recycling centre as well. Currently it does fur, iron, mixed, iron and that allows a lot of scrap iron to build up. At time I have 40+ scrap iron and <10 mixed and <10 fur.

Perhaps the cycle should be iron, fur, iron, mixed, iron?

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-08, 23:36 UTC+2.0

thanks Tinker for the hint. As there is much less mixed scrapped metal returned after my changes the change of the recycling cycles is really necessary.
Anyhow I picked up a savegame of my last try at around 40 minutes and managed to get the first hero at 1 hour 34 minutes. Still this might be possible somewhat faster. Anyhow i will try the new config with a claydigger now.
keep you informed

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teppo

Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42 UTC+1.0
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 Posted at: 2018-05-09, 20:12 UTC+2.0

WorldSavior wrote:

I think there is an exception: Aqua farm needs a working clay pit nearby.

Isn't it enough for the aqua farm if the clay pit has once worked a little bit? I think I never saw aqua farms stop working when the clay pits did.

I tried it out: Removed the need of clay from the economy, and increased fish need (by setting the target to absurdly high value). The result was that fish production declined, but really slowly. Then I removed the need for fish for some minutes, and resumed it. The fish production collapsed and did not recover.

Aqua farm manages fine without a constantly active clay pit, if the aqua farm itself is running all the time.

Sure?

I agree, it was an overstatement.

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2018-05-10, 00:43 UTC+2.0

reintroduced the claydigger and changed the production cycles of furnace and recycling center.
Up to now I managed a 1 hour 22 minutes for the first hero, with room for improvement. The furnace inefficiency is avoidable in the beginning anyhow so this didn't really have an effect on the first hero, but on the following ones.
I don't have commited and uploaded the changes yet though they need some refinement and I wanted to test them first.
So for me the reintroduction of the claydigger is a great improvement. Are there any objections against it?
Any other hints where to look to increase the speed any further? What would be an acceptable value for getting the first hero on this particular map?
To run an economy that fully supports 2 running training camps is another task to complete but I dindn't manage this yet.

Every input would be highly appreciated.

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