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Topic: Barbarian Battlearena Revisited

Astuur
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Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2011-09-22, 21:05

Can't keep up with your pace face-smile.png
All the variants are nice.
Seeing this in the blue playercolor, I wonder whether SirVer really wanted that much
of it; this blue simply hurts the eye! Only the 4 door post might be enough already.
For a long time I meant to ask whether we could not choose a lighter blue for the player color.
At high resolution it's hard to tell apart from black. But that is a different topic.
I'm sorry if this disappoints you, but I honestly cannot make up my mind what the rectangular structure on the north end in BA5 is supposed to be - not even with your hint.
I have been thinking it may be a toilet hut, but that does not seem to be particularly attractive for animations face-smile.png
If you wanted to take up the idea of a well, we may need some more characteristic shape or a winch, chain and bucket type of thing; but I don't think it is a well.
Sorry Chuck, but I can't figure it out face-sad.png


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
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Posted at: 2011-09-22, 21:32

Astuur wrote: Seeing this in the blue playercolor, I wonder whether SirVer really wanted that much of it; this blue simply hurts the eye!

There are ways I can darken it but it would effect PlayerColor everywhere in the whole model, doorposts and pennants, etc. for all hues not just blue alone.

I'm sorry if this disappoints you, but I honestly cannot make up my mind what the rectangular structure on the north end in BA5 is supposed to be - not even with your hint.

I have been thinking it may be a toilet hut, but that does not seem to be particularly attractive for animations

It is supposed to be what we affectionately referred to in the "good old days" as "the necessary" or "privvy", a.k.a. "the little house out back". Guess I'm getting punchy with all of this rustic architecture. face-smile.png

If you wanted to take up the idea of a well, we may need some more characteristic shape or a winch, chain and bucket type of thing; but I don't think it is a well.
Sorry Chuck, but I can't figure it out

I'll rework the space. Thanks for your diplomacy. face-smile.png

I'll post another BA5 in a little while that should address the waterfront issue and the mystery building. face-smile-big.png


I see little people.

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2011-09-22, 23:12

And here is BA5-a: BA5a
The ground plane is now opaque at the perimeter and the "mystery building" has been transformed into a well with winch for future animation possibilities.
These images can be used to test in the game if desired with a hot spot of 115 74:
big ba 5a big ba 5a pc

I will go with this version and start creating the build animation UNLESS there are major exceptions. face-smile.png

Goodnight


I see little people.

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Astuur
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 06:49

Chuck wrote:

I thought it would be nice to see the natural terrain within the perimeter. I now understand the issue and will take steps to address it. Thanks.

The proper solution to this and related problems, is IMO not one for the graphics department. All you could do in this respect, is to refrain from using any transparent ground. But this is a nice technique that makes the models more realistic and individual.
Your creativity currently totally outruns the observable progress that the coders make. But I hope we will see more programmers contributions at some time again in the future. So my idea would be to alert the programmers to this and not to touch this feature from your side.
I don't know if you have followed the periodically arising issue with the "ancient sun of fire" map; this one is particularly prone to frustrate players, because an enemy is no more attackable after having placed his buildings in a way that no soldiers can even enter the enemies territory. This problem must be adressed anyhow and is not at all related to your work.
Suggestions have been made to alter the house-building-allowance in a way that only such houses may be build that would guarantee a soldier to pass on all sides of the building. Other suggestions were debated, that I could not really grasp. In essence this should prevent building in such doubtful places.


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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Astuur
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 08:08

Chuck wrote:

There are ways I can darken it [the blue player color] but it would effect PlayerColor everywhere in the whole model, doorposts and pennants, etc. for all hues not just blue alone.

Yes, of course. This is about the playercolor blue - everywhere all instances, all worlds. I have been addressing this issue in some other post outside of the graphics forum, and SirVer sent me right back to you, stating that such changes are for the Graphics elder to decide. It seems, the decision is yours, but the change might still be in the code. I remember Nasenbaer has once changed the colors of the healthbars; may be related.

My request would be to selectively change the blue, but not to something darker, but rather a lighter and less saturated variant. If it was darkend, it would be even harder to distinquish from black. I only want the blue to be less aggressive. The current PC blue:
My suggestion:

So what do you say: Could you recommend such a change from your point of view?


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 08:31

Chuck wrote:

It is supposed to be what we affectionately referred to in the "good old days" as "the necessary" or "privvy", a.k.a. "the little house out back". Guess I'm getting punchy with all of this rustic architecture.

Ah.. the American euphemistic figures of speech - always makes me smile. So my first idea was not so far off the mark, after all.
If you want to stick to this idea, you should punch in a heart shaped hole into the center of the front door. At least Germans will know immediately what that means! face-grin.png

But I am again late. While I was writing my posting, your BA5a has appeared online.
Personally, I like your well better than the "Soldiers' powder room" - but that is just my preference. Whatever you finally decide, is fine with me; I really like all the models.
I only humbly ask you to reconsider the tranparent ground feature. I think, it was too good to let go, given the fact that it is related to a real bug, that needs to be rectified in any case. It may even help to offer yet another incentive to the coders to adress this. face-smile.png


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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Shevonar
Joined: 2011-09-05, 21:28
Posts: 136
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 11:28

Hello Graphicians,

first of all I'm impressed by your awesome and fast work and all the good ideas you have. The new models look great. face-smile.png

My other intention was to show you a coders point of view on the transparency issue. I'm quite new so my information might not be correct, but I hope to give you an idea. I think the problem is that big buildings are buildable that near to the water. It might be the easiest (and best) solution to avoid spots for big buildings near the coast. The other possibility is to change the terrain from water to sand or grass but this is rather difficult to implement. Another question is: how much do the tribes know about land reclamation? I think it will look strange if there is "popping up" new land from the sea.


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2011-09-23, 17:10

Astuur wrote:

My request would be to selectively change the blue, but not to something darker, but rather a lighter and less saturated variant. If it was darkend, it would be even harder to distinquish from black. I only want the blue to be less aggressive. ... So what do you say: Could you recommend such a change from your point of view?

First let me state that this is going off-topic from this particular thread (something for which we seem to have a marked propensity.) face-smile.png I am, however, willing to entertain lightening the blue PlayerColor throughout the game.
I AM NOT A CODER and this would have to be verified by someone qualified, but a search of the source yielded the following information which I present in a more graphic form to illustrate the actual colors:
PC code
It would SEEM the shade listed last for each color is what is used for the first 1-8 player numbers, (i.e. player #1 is assigned a PlayerColor RGB number of 2,2,198; player #2 - 255,41,0; etc.), player #9 would then be assigned the second last shade of blue (2,2,149), player #10 the second last shade of red (209,34,0), etc. up to the current maximum of 12 players, but I do not know for certain why each color is presented in 4 varieties.
Running with this assumption, however, I might propose the following values, subject to seeing their impact in the game of course:
Proposal
Other possibilities are certainly worthy of consideration.

I will try my hand at using these in my test bed and report my results.
Meanwhile, if someone who actually KNOWS the code can offer either a confirmation of my theory or an explanation of what is happening internally, I would be most grateful. face-smile-big.png

I will continue THIS dialogue in a NEW thread.

Edited: 2011-09-23, 17:20

I see little people.

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 17:32

Astuur wrote:

Chuck wrote:

It is supposed to be what we affectionately referred to in the "good old days" as "the necessary" or "privvy", a.k.a. "the little house out back". Guess I'm getting punchy with all of this rustic architecture.

Ah.. the American euphemistic figures of speech - always makes me smile. So my first idea was not so far off the mark, after all.

When it comes to "American euphemistic figures of speech", I'm your man. face-smile-big.png

If you want to stick to this idea, you should punch in a heart shaped hole into the center of the front door. At least Germans will know immediately what that means!

Though you couldn't see it clearly, there was a crescent moon on the door of my "American" privvy. face-grin.png For now, at any rate, I think we'll leave such facilities to the imagination of the players.

I only humbly ask you to reconsider the tranparent ground feature. I think, it was too good to let go, given the fact that it is related to a real bug, that needs to be rectified in any case. It may even help to offer yet another incentive to the coders to adress this.

It should be "safe" to allow the underlying terrain show in the central areas of the building site, anyway.


I see little people.

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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
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Posted at: 2011-09-23, 17:41

Shevonar wrote:

Hello Graphicians,

Hi, Shevonar! Welcome to the Graphics Forum!

first of all I'm impressed by your awesome and fast work and all the good ideas you have. The new models look great.

Thanks!

My other intention was to show you a coders point of view on the transparency issue. I'm quite new so my information might not be correct, but I hope to give you an idea. I think the problem is that big buildings are buildable that near to the water. It might be the easiest (and best) solution to avoid spots for big buildings near the coast.

Ah, but that approach would prevent placing docks and shipyards conveniently as with the Atlanteans currently. face-smile.png

The other possibility is to change the terrain from water to sand or grass but this is rather difficult to implement. Another question is: how much do the tribes know about land reclamation? I think it will look strange if there is "popping up" new land from the sea.

There has been discussion of supporting more varied terrain on or near shorelines which might mitigate this issue.

Thanks for your comments. They are very much appreciated. And, while I am at it, thanks for your coding contributions!


I see little people.

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