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Topic: Barbarian Warehouse Remodel

chuckw
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Posted at: 2011-08-30, 18:49

Venatrix wrote: IMO, do the dimensions of the warehouse not fit to the ones of other houses. I mean the door, the staircase, just about all is too big compared to the game keeper (for example) seen in the picture. One sees that it was a small picture made big, if you understand what I mean.

For everyone's reference, here I shared my thoughts on scaling immovables in Widelands. It is really difficult to size the buildings to look right in close proximity to each other, especially when the buildings are of different size categories. At the same time, the mechanics of roads and z-layering pose just that many more challenges to creating something that both looks right and behaves naturally on the game board.

@kingcreole - Your idea to accommodate the warehouse's hot spot with the stairs to a 2nd floor entrance is pure genius! And you were wise to delete the ground plane by the cellar doors. However, I think the problems we are currently facing can best be circumvented by reducing the size of the warehouse's footprint (i.e. how much of the building actually touches the ground). z-layering is currently not adjustable by anyone but a coder and that is not an option here. We seem to be faced with trying to squeeze a large image into a "medium/small" category space. Can you think of a way to shrink the footprint and still convey the idea of a "medium sized building"? For now, we are locked into these constraints and will have to find ways to work around them.

Changing the warehouse conf file's "size=medium" to "size=big" would likely give us room to play by stretching the boundaries to the green line in my map gauge (see my post above), but I don't know of any further ramifications such a change would have. I would guess it would move the warehouse into the category of "big" buildings and thereby upset some balancing in the game. That is a decision I would have to leave to SirVer.

So get out your shoe horn. face-smile.png


I see little people.

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kingcreole
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Posted at: 2011-08-30, 20:09

trying to fix the problem... moved the cellar door and still got 2 or 3 pixles problem, maybe i'll have to realy build it smaller...


live is my dancefloor as long as my lag works

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kingcreole
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Posted at: 2011-08-31, 12:28

getting closer... last chance for critics, this warehouse will soon be finished

live is my dancefloor as long as my lag works

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Venatrix
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Posted at: 2011-08-31, 14:53

It’s a bit pity, that you removed the cellar door… But it’s alright.

The wood doesn’t seem to be right. The brown is too light and if you want that blockhouse look (that you have at many barbarian buildings), you should align the logs horizontally, not vertigonally. And a few windows (maybe at the roof or the south western wall) could be useful (at least, if the workers don’t want to use lots of torches). Oh, yes, the flag on the roof… 1. It seems a bit lost there. You could make more of them (one at each end for example) or make it bigger (maybe). 2. I hope it will be in player colour…?

last chance for critics, this warehouse will soon be finished

I hope, you don’t mean it. Sometimes someone’s got a good idea just when you think it’s all over. face-wink.png


Two is the oddest prime.

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kingcreole
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Posted at: 2011-08-31, 15:24

Venatrix wrote: It’s a bit pity, that you removed the cellar door… But it’s alright.

nope i didn´t remove those ^^ i just moved them to the right of the main entrace

The wood doesn’t seem to be right. The brown is too light and if you want that blockhouse look (that you have at many barbarian buildings), you should align the logs horizontally, not vertigonally.

i´ll be checking those soon, every material there seems to be kinda weird... maybe the lighting behaves differently in 2.5 wich means i´ll have to fake those old settings as best as i can and push another building template... you´re right about those vertigonal logs... kinda got that from the old HQ or fernery, will change that too

And a few windows (maybe at the roof or the south western wall) could be useful (at least, if the workers don’t want to use lots of torches).

ou jea of course, torches under a thatched roof is kinda weird...

Oh, yes, the flag on the roof… 1. It seems a bit lost there. You could make more of them (one at each end for example) or make it bigger (maybe).

jop, no problemo

  1. I hope it will be in player colour…?

maybe i´ll even get a script to do that... gotta watch some blender py tuts..

last chance for critics, this warehouse will soon be finished

I hope, you don’t mean it. Sometimes someone’s got a good idea just when you think it’s all over.

i don´t mean it but i hope it face-grin.png that edge at the bottom left was realy hard to get right and therefore i hope a complete remodel will not be forced...


live is my dancefloor as long as my lag works

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chuckw
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Posted at: 2011-08-31, 16:31

kingcreole wrote:

Venatrix wrote: It’s a bit pity, that you removed the cellar door… But it’s alright.

nope i didn´t remove those ^^ i just moved them to the right of the main entrace

Glad you kept them, they are just tough to see behind the building flag. Perhaps if you open the right door and give it a good contrasting color it will be more easily noticed.

The wood doesn’t seem to be right. The brown is too light and if you want that blockhouse look (that you have at many barbarian buildings), you should align the logs horizontally, not vertigonally.

i´ll be checking those soon, every material there seems to be kinda weird... maybe the lighting behaves differently in 2.5 wich means i´ll have to fake those old settings as best as i can and push another building template... you´re right about those vertigonal logs... kinda got that from the old HQ or fernery, will change that too

The wood in the barbarian buildings has always been a sore point with me. Instead of the "orangey" material we see in the older buildings, I would even prefer a weathered gray, or gray-brown. There may be something you can use in the "Materials Pallette" in the Blender Resources folder of the media trunk. Check other buildings (even other tribes) for materials that can be appended. For new templates, we must be as close to the 2.49 staging criteria as we can get or we'll have all kinds of inconsistencies.

And a few windows (maybe at the roof or the south western wall) could be useful (at least, if the workers don’t want to use lots of torches).

ou jea of course, torches under a thatched roof is kinda weird...

Yes, the warehouse houses workers and soldiers, too, remember.

Oh, yes, the flag on the roof… 1. It seems a bit lost there. You could make more of them (one at each end for example) or make it bigger (maybe).

jop, no problemo

An option other than a flag could be a bolt(s) of cloth which could also be in player color.

I hope it will be in player colour…?

maybe i´ll even get a script to do that... gotta watch some blender py tuts..

I'd like to see that script when you get it done. The scripts we have for 2.49 are the ideal I would like the new scripts to be patterned after.

last chance for critics, this warehouse will soon be finished

I hope, you don’t mean it. Sometimes someone’s got a good idea just when you think it’s all over.

i don´t mean it but i hope it that edge at the bottom left was realy hard to get right and therefore i hope a complete remodel will not be forced...

face-smile-big.png No one likes re-work, especially me, but the community decides acceptability in any changes, and in Widelands the work will never be done. That's one thing I love about it.

@kingcreole: I know you have created building animation (which I'm eager to see). Do you have any plans for animating the idle state? There is no "working state", per se.


I see little people.

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Astuur
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Posted at: 2011-08-31, 18:24

Are you using a microscope, Kingcreole? face-smile.png
I can hardly see what you mean even with magnification!

Much more disturbing I find that the most attractive part of the building
can be covered so easily by those L-shaped buildings.
If this is the best possible with the given hotspot, I'd rather see a smaller model, that gets less covered by buildings "before" the warehouse!
If you do downsize, you may want to give it a larger roof overhang.

Some other things, I can notice:
1) Your colors (thatched roof, walls etc.) seem to differ; it is more pale-pinkish
while the other buildings are more yellowish.

2) I don't think the vertical logs look so good.
I'd prefer horizontal logs about the diameter of the ones before the lumberjack,
(yeah, bigger that all other buildings!). It's also more logical to build it like that.
I wouldn't leave the outer walls so totally naked and unstructured.
Some windows, or ventilation holes, may look good.

The little flag on top will probably be player colored, right?

Otherwise this a great idea to have a second storey and some stairs, and of course "realistic" for anti-rat prevention and all that. But best of all, it adds another element and a totally different house type!
I already said that I like the cellar doors very much.
Sorry, to be so late with this opinion.... and it's just my own, of course, that you don't need to share face-smile.png

PS: Dammit, didn't read Venatrix's posting or your reply. I could have saved my breath. Sorry about that.

But I have a question, just out of curiosity, Kingcreole:
Why did you choose to work on the warehouse?
Of all civilian houses this seems to be the most genuine and not containing so many re-used elements. The design reminds me very much of a Norwegian "stabburet", the tradition rural storage house (though I have never seen ones so big). You don't like the old one?
I admit it doesn't look "bararian" in any way, but rather peaceful instead face-smile.png

Edited: 2011-08-31, 19:18

Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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hjd
Joined: 2011-06-12, 20:24
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Posted at: 2011-09-25, 15:58

Astuur wrote: But I have a question, just out of curiosity, Kingcreole:
Why did you choose to work on the warehouse?
Of all civilian houses this seems to be the most genuine and not containing so many re-used elements. The design reminds me very much of a Norwegian "stabburet", the tradition rural storage house (though I have never seen ones so big). You don't like the old one?
I admit it doesn't look "bararian" in any way, but rather peaceful instead

I randomly stumbled across this thread recently, and would also like to know this. I thought the main reason for redesigning some of the buildings were because we lacked the models, but the warehouse is new enough to have an animation at least. I also really like the existing warehouse, but I'm probably biased since it's a "stabbur".


Ships!

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chuckw
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Posted at: 2013-04-24, 22:58

kingcreole wrote: after some testing i must say, the person who made the original warehouse deserves a huge amount of respect, since the workers pop out of nowhere on the top right of the building, anyway, heres my new solution, hope you like it face-smile.png

warehouse


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kingcreole
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Posted at: 2013-04-25, 18:22

thank you face-smile.png i searched for this post, but didn't find it face-grin.png

what do you think about the model?

the workers can walk everywhere arround the building without hitting their toes or jumping through roofs, maybe i sould put logs instead of planks onto that little open air storage at the right, since the planks can be easily irritated with a trapdoor.. anyway, the workers will walk freely, and to get to the storage of the warehouse they use those stairs, wich i believe is a funny Idea since i dunno if any other building in the game actualy has stairs...


live is my dancefloor as long as my lag works

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